Chauvinism is alive and well.....

jot1 · 06-03-2005, 09:25 AM

Chauvinism is alive and well in sport forums throughout the www. For the past few weeks I have visited various sites with sport forums. Cricket, rugby, football, formula 1 and other motorracing, etc. I have visited as a guest and even joined a few. I have posted comments about matches and players and umpires or referees, whichever the case may be. Even the grounds played on, weather conditions and this player versus that one.
Now here I will make a confession. I have posted the same comments (well, more or less, so as not to give the game away) first as a female, then as a male. Invariably the comment made in my female persona has attracted very little or no reaction whatsoever. Whereas, the nearly same thing said, in my male persona, has led to lively and interesting discussions. Females are not made to feel welcome in the sport forums or taken seriously. They are made welcome in the "off topic" forums. (Most sport forums have a similar forum.) Where I have found that men are more forthcoming in a flirty, semi condescending way. I don't know if other woman have found this to be so but I do know most sport forums have very few female members and those they have seem to stick to the "off topic" forum. Yet, when you go to a sport event, a major portion of the spectators are female, be it cricket, rugby or motorracing.
Men, I have news for you. Woman love sport, Woman love talking about sport, Woman take part in sport. They drive racing cars, play cricket and rugby, etc. They know the rules, can differentiate between bad balls and good, bad calls and good, silly mistakes and technical flaws. They can add, subtract and devide, work out the D/L method, and they even collect autographs!
I realise I have probably broken some forum rules here, and antagonised 99% of the members.(The other 1% being a few females who agree with me. Not all! I do know some females only come here because there are plenty of men to flirt with.) But I do believe that if woman were taken more seriously in sport forums in will add to the discussions, and I (and I believe other woman too) really would like to have somewhere to go to discuss the sport of my preference with other PEOPLE.

Langeveldt · 06-03-2005, 09:31 AM

Very interesting.. I certainly think the female population is well represented on the grass banks at the cricket

Sorry! Sorry!
I have to agree with you.. Some of my best sporting convos have been with women, thats without a shadow of doubt, as have some of the best games of Badminton and Cricket I have had.. Some of the opinions I hold in the highest order are those of women when it comes to sport..

If I have come across as chauvenistic, then I totally apologize, but I hope not.. (I actually thought you were a guy until we started conversing in Afrikaans and it emerged you weren't)

I hate having to contend with a woman who holds total apathy towards sport..Maybe that says something..

Jono · 06-03-2005, 09:39 AM

Excellent post actually, and interesting experiment too.

On just about every board I've been too, whether it involve video games, cricket, wrestling, tennis etc. females do tend to be ignored in the main topic forum (many are told to go play Britney Spears dancing), but in the OT forums they are pursued in what can only be described as pitiful. I'm not talking about males joking around with the females, but further than that.

I pretty much agree with everything you've said. Although, as you pointed out, females that sign up to boards for personal attention do get on my nerves. You can mainly pick those ones out when they have the words "I Am Female!" in big bold writing in their signatures.

nikhil1772 · 06-03-2005, 09:42 AM

CW is not chauvenistic...(I spelt the word correctly...hurray!!!)...but seriously I dont think anyone here is...Honestly I think if its a good comment then its well discussed but if it is the same comment said in a different way like in a flirtatious way...doesnt attract much attention.

My view.

Langeveldt · 06-03-2005, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

but in the OT forums they are pursued in what can only be described as pitiful. I'm not talking about males joking around with the females, but further than that.

Wow, think you have grabbed totally the wrong end of the stick there.. Im happy to consider some to be good friends of mine.. You really think we are that shallow?

BoyBrumby · 06-03-2005, 09:48 AM

Wow.

I feel I should apologise. Hope I haven't said anything patronising. I have to be honest & say I wasn't aware you were a lass initially, but when you said something about "not having the equipment" to wear a condom I assumed you were.

Hope you don't think we're all slathering idiots now.

BTW, have you posted here in your, er, male persona? If so, who are you?

Langeveldt · 06-03-2005, 09:50 AM

hahah, you have Brumby on the floor and out for the count already.. Women can be so calculating

Jono · 06-03-2005, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Langeveldt

Wow, think you have grabbed totally the wrong end of the stick there.. Im happy to consider some to be good friends of mine.. You really think we are that shallow?

I generally consider what you're referring to as 'joking', thus why I specifically put it into my post. I wasn't referring to you if that's what you're implying. *shrugs*

I was mainly referring to some video game forums I've been to, whereby I remember a specific female (well she claimed to be anyway) who wasn't looking for attention either was asking questions regarding, well how shall I say, usually considered 'male loved games' (trying to be as politically correct as possible). Resident Evil, Mortal Kombat etc. As I said before, she was told to go back to playing Britney Spears Dancing, or something similar to that comment.

The same girl was being pursued (and I specificy particularly, not joking around) heavily by many many posters. Just found it extremely hypocritical.

I also realise VG forums aren't 'sport forums', but I still feel it is relevant.

SJS · 06-03-2005, 10:00 AM

Very thought provoking indeed.

I come from a relatively much more male dominated country like India although I would like to believe that I am a 'liberal' in this respect but I suppose there is bound to be some 'conditioning' from the environment one is brought up in. Let me honestly try to give you my feelings on how I feel towards a female poster on a cricket forum.

1. It is difficult to tell who is a male and who a female until they or those who have known them disclose this. I have, mistakenly assumed some here to be females when they were not and I can at best say, I may have been politer towards them. Nothing more nothing less.

2. It is clear, as someone else said, that some wear their female-ness like a badge and seem to enjoy the male attention they get. Its possible that they will get taken less seriously when discussing the game. I am not saying its justified but thats how it is. There are some, males no doubt, who behave here like juvenile delinquents and I am sure they too would not be taken that seriously in cricketing matters.

3. With apologies to my friends from the sub continent, I would like to believe that with nearly half of most cricket forums populated by people from our part of the world, there could, just possibly could, be a difference in the way they interact, or even avoid interaction, with females. Again, I know it is unfair to generalise but I believe it might be so.

4. There are relatively fewer women intersted in discussing cricket beyond the mere who scored, who won details amongst most people friends and relatives of the fairer sex I interact with in India. I dont know of many who would first go to the sports page in the morning papers, for example.

Having said that, I have been pretty impressed by some of the young, and very very young, girls on cricket forums who are obviously as passionate about the game as any male. I think the younger lot is going to help change our, the men folk's, image of a female cricket fan/enthusiast.

Langeveldt · 06-03-2005, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jono

I generally consider what you're referring to as 'joking', thus why I specifically put it into my post. I wasn't referring to you if that's what you're implying. *shrugs*

I was mainly referring to some video game forums I've been to, whereby I remember a specific female (well she claimed to be anyway) who wasn't looking for attention either was asking questions regarding, well how shall I say, usually considered 'male loved games' (trying to be as politically correct as possible). Resident Evil, Mortal Kombat etc. As I said before, she was told to go back to playing Britney Spears Dancing, or something similar to that comment.

The same girl was being pursued (and I specificy particularly, not joking around) heavily by many many posters. Just found it extremely hypocritical.

I also realise VG forums aren't 'sport forums', but I still feel it is relevant.

Fair enough.. Hope we don't descend to that..

I have had to put up with quite a bit of the opposite end of the spectrum, women who don't give a care for guys and think they are the scum of the earth, because of opression that happens in someone else's culture or time period... I really dislike feminists, at least the ones that live in this fairly equal society..

Some men have been PC'd into total wusses..

Kweek · 06-03-2005, 10:54 AM

in my cricket team i have 2 girls, one is there for the fun and 1 is very good and plays dutch U16 team, good bowler

women in sports are always fun

Langeveldt · 06-03-2005, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwek

in my cricket team i have 2 girls, one is there for the fun and 1 is very good and plays dutch U16 team, good bowler

women in sports are always fun

I guess Im chauvenistic deep inside

One of the worst feelings in sport was being beaten in a badminton match by a girl, and edging one behind in a net

jot1 · 06-03-2005, 11:35 AM

I'm going to make some more comments. Please don't take any as an attack on you or think I am accusing you. I also don't want to cause bad vibes. I put female in my profile for the experiment's sake. Forums I am a permanent member of, my gender is not listed. No one needs to apologise unless you are one of the guys who did hit on me, you know who you are. My male persona will not be appearing again so if you really want to know and are a good enough detective.....:P I must admit that I am not as up to all the technical stuff in cricket as most males in this forum seem to be. So I will from time to time ask a stupid question. Which is mainly the reason I come to sport forums in the first place. To learn and listen so I can know more and so appreciate the game more. BTW, thanks that no one has suggested I be banned yet.

barmyarmy · 06-03-2005, 11:38 AM

That's interesting. The sports forum I administrate has as many (if not more) active female as male members. I wouldn't dare say anything chauvinist or misogynistic...

Langeveldt · 06-03-2005, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jot1

I'm going to make some more comments. Please don't take any as an attack on you or think I am accusing you. I also don't want to cause bad vibes. I put female in my profile for the experiment's sake. Forums I am a permanent member of, my gender is not listed. No one needs to apologise unless you are one of the guys who did hit on me, you know who you are. My male persona will not be appearing again so if you really want to know and are a good enough detective.....:P I must admit that I am not as up to all the technical stuff in cricket as most males in this forum seem to be. So I will from time to time ask a stupid question. Which is mainly the reason I come to sport forums in the first place. To learn and listen so I can know more and so appreciate the game more. BTW, thanks that no one has suggested I be banned yet.

Female-Male persona... Wow, I guess some people used to think I was Kristin Davis.. But I have never thought forum members could be that cunning

There are just as many men who don't know the technical aspects of the game.. Just ask Marcus Trescothick and Hashim Amla

06-03-2005, 09:25 AM	#1 (permalink)
jot1 State Vice-Captain Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: South Africa Posts: 1,098	Chauvinism is alive and well..... Chauvinism is alive and well in sport forums throughout the www. For the past few weeks I have visited various sites with sport forums. Cricket, rugby, football, formula 1 and other motorracing, etc. I have visited as a guest and even joined a few. I have posted comments about matches and players and umpires or referees, whichever the case may be. Even the grounds played on, weather conditions and this player versus that one. Now here I will make a confession. I have posted the same comments (well, more or less, so as not to give the game away) first as a female, then as a male. Invariably the comment made in my female persona has attracted very little or no reaction whatsoever. Whereas, the nearly same thing said, in my male persona, has led to lively and interesting discussions. Females are not made to feel welcome in the sport forums or taken seriously. They are made welcome in the "off topic" forums. (Most sport forums have a similar forum.) Where I have found that men are more forthcoming in a flirty, semi condescending way. I don't know if other woman have found this to be so but I do know most sport forums have very few female members and those they have seem to stick to the "off topic" forum. Yet, when you go to a sport event, a major portion of the spectators are female, be it cricket, rugby or motorracing. Men, I have news for you. Woman love sport, Woman love talking about sport, Woman take part in sport. They drive racing cars, play cricket and rugby, etc. They know the rules, can differentiate between bad balls and good, bad calls and good, silly mistakes and technical flaws. They can add, subtract and devide, work out the D/L method, and they even collect autographs! I realise I have probably broken some forum rules here, and antagonised 99% of the members.(The other 1% being a few females who agree with me. Not all! I do know some females only come here because there are plenty of men to flirt with.) But I do believe that if woman were taken more seriously in sport forums in will add to the discussions, and I (and I believe other woman too) really would like to have somewhere to go to discuss the sport of my preference with other PEOPLE.

06-03-2005, 09:42 AM	#4 (permalink)
nikhil1772 State Vice-Captain Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Pune,India Posts: 1,443	CW is not chauvenistic...(I spelt the word correctly...hurray!!!)...but seriously I dont think anyone here is...Honestly I think if its a good comment then its well discussed but if it is the same comment said in a different way like in a flirtatious way...doesnt attract much attention. My view. __________________ Member Of AAAS Supporter of: Liverpool FC Ferrari F1 Iron Maiden (Bombay.Feb 1st,2008...I was there) UP THE IRONS !!!

06-03-2005, 09:48 AM	#6 (permalink)
BoyBrumby Englishman Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Doing the stance Posts: 42,658	Wow. I feel I should apologise. Hope I haven't said anything patronising. I have to be honest & say I wasn't aware you were a lass initially, but when you said something about "not having the equipment" to wear a condom I assumed you were. Hope you don't think we're all slathering idiots now. BTW, have you posted here in your, er, male persona? If so, who are you? __________________ *- As featured in The Independent.* "This is not the time for namby-pamby promising youngsters who might just do something; not the time for building for the future. Pragmatism rules and they don't come more pragmatic than Rogers." - Victor Marks makes the case for stiff-legged and stiff-armed 35 year old left-handers in Ashes squads

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06-03-2005, 09:39 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jono Request Your Custom Title Now! Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Virat Kohli Posts: 47,551	Excellent post actually, and interesting experiment too. On just about every board I've been too, whether it involve video games, cricket, wrestling, tennis etc. females do tend to be ignored in the main topic forum (many are told to go play Britney Spears dancing), but in the OT forums they are pursued in what can only be described as pitiful. I'm not talking about males joking around with the females, but further than that. I pretty much agree with everything you've said. Although, as you pointed out, females that sign up to boards for personal attention do get on my nerves. You can mainly pick those ones out when they have the words "I Am Female!" in big bold writing in their signatures.

06-03-2005, 09:50 AM	#7 (permalink)
Langeveldt Soutie Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Stellenbosch - South Africa Posts: 29,336	hahah, you have Brumby on the floor and out for the count already.. Women can be so calculating

06-03-2005, 10:00 AM	#9 (permalink)
SJS Hall of Fame Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Mumbai India Posts: 19,185	Very thought provoking indeed. I come from a relatively much more male dominated country like India although I would like to believe that I am a 'liberal' in this respect but I suppose there is bound to be some 'conditioning' from the environment one is brought up in. Let me honestly try to give you my feelings on how I feel towards a female poster on a cricket forum. 1. It is difficult to tell who is a male and who a female until they or those who have known them disclose this. I have, mistakenly assumed some here to be females when they were not and I can at best say, I may have been politer towards them. Nothing more nothing less. 2. It is clear, as someone else said, that some wear their female-ness like a badge and seem to enjoy the male attention they get. Its possible that they will get taken less seriously when discussing the game. I am not saying its justified but thats how it is. There are some, males no doubt, who behave here like juvenile delinquents and I am sure they too would not be taken that seriously in cricketing matters. 3. With apologies to my friends from the sub continent, I would like to believe that with nearly half of most cricket forums populated by people from our part of the world, there could, just possibly could, be a difference in the way they interact, or even avoid interaction, with females. Again, I know it is unfair to generalise but I believe it might be so. 4. There are relatively fewer women intersted in discussing cricket beyond the mere who scored, who won details amongst most people friends and relatives of the fairer sex I interact with in India. I dont know of many who would first go to the sports page in the morning papers, for example. Having said that, I have been pretty impressed by some of the young, and very very young, girls on cricket forums who are obviously as passionate about the game as any male. I think the younger lot is going to help change our, the men folk's, image of a female cricket fan/enthusiast.

06-03-2005, 11:35 AM	#13 (permalink)
jot1 State Vice-Captain Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: South Africa Posts: 1,098	I'm going to make some more comments. Please don't take any as an attack on you or think I am accusing you. I also don't want to cause bad vibes. I put female in my profile for the experiment's sake. Forums I am a permanent member of, my gender is not listed. No one needs to apologise unless you are one of the guys who did hit on me, you know who you are. My male persona will not be appearing again so if you really want to know and are a good enough detective.....:P I must admit that I am not as up to all the technical stuff in cricket as most males in this forum seem to be. So I will from time to time ask a stupid question. Which is mainly the reason I come to sport forums in the first place. To learn and listen so I can know more and so appreciate the game more. BTW, thanks that no one has suggested I be banned yet.

06-03-2005, 11:38 AM	#14 (permalink)
barmyarmy U19 Captain Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 658	That's interesting. The sports forum I administrate has as many (if not more) active female as male members. I wouldn't dare say anything chauvinist or misogynistic...

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