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#271 (permalink) | |
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International Captain
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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All through this thread (and it has been a good one, and I thank you all, because I feel a bit more sane than usual by actually making an attempt to engage in a proper discussion) I still see this massive disconnect between the very real, indeed rather massive, risk of unwanted pregnancy, and the "pro-choice" posters' apparent appreciation of said risk. I know you're all clever people, I'm sure I could hit you over the head with statistics all day and I wouldn't be telling you anything you didn't already know, but somehow most people just don't react to this risk the same way I do.....I could give various reasons why but then I would be venturing in to such a broad, unprovable social/psychological analysis that it wouldn't help the debate in any way. Suffice to say the whole thing is tinged with an almost surreal madness for me that things are the way they are. It's like....if I can't get absolutely off-my-head mad about literally tens of millions of abortions every year, how am I supposed to get mad about any of society's other ills? Does anyone on the other side of the debate at least understand what I mean? |
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#272 (permalink) | |||||||
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The Wheel is Forever
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#273 (permalink) |
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International Vice-Captain
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Barrow Island, WA
Posts: 4,063
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Once born, the state assumes responsibility for children, U/18s if you like, at least in the west. Prior to this you could say that the individual mother is solely responsible for the unborn child. I agree with what SS has said. At two years old there is the option of adoption, and most developed countries would have a social secrurity system to deal with such occurances, to use 'can't survive on it's own' as a point of arguement doesn't provide a valid rebuff.
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#274 (permalink) | |
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International Regular
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: aus
Posts: 3,607
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#275 (permalink) | |
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The Wheel is Forever
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The issue is, and what I find repugnant, is the state forcing a woman to go through a dangerous pregnancy and deliver a child against her will. That is abhorrent where I am concerned. |
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#276 (permalink) | |
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International Regular
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: aus
Posts: 3,607
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The state did not force the woman to have sex. She made that decision on her own (well except in the rare case of rape but that's not what we're discussing here). She played with fire and got burned and now there is someone else involved that will get hurt if she aborts. On a related topic, has anyone read "Children of Men"? It was made into a movie a few years ago. The basic premise is that noone can have children any more (for whatever reason all males have started firing blanks). The author postulated that in such a situation people lost a large part of their sex drive because they could not have children. Even casual sex was far less frequent than before. It is only speculation, but it is interesting to consider. After all, most men do not like using condoms and I'm sure it's not because of the comfort factor. I think, subconsciously at least, we all want to reproduce, which is mixed in with why we have sex. |
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#277 (permalink) | ||
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Cricketer Of The Year
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Brisbane
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The other thing that hasn't been mentioned when people start raising their moral objections to abortion (which are perfectly valid) and their disapproval of laws such as Victoria, is that such legislation is for the benefit of the woman. It's much more healthy for a woman to be able to go to the doctor and get the procedure done with certain protections guaranteed than trying to do it herself in her backyard. Abortions will happen for as long as women have unwanted pregnancies (which we all agree should be minimised but can never be erradicated). Before we start discussing the sexual culture in which we exist, has anybody else here read the book 'Female Chauvinist Pigs'?
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#278 (permalink) | |
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The Wheel is Forever
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#280 (permalink) |
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International Vice-Captain
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Barrow Island, WA
Posts: 4,063
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Yikes!
Two abortion clinic employees plead guilty to murder | Reuters (a warning for the feint hearted, a bit distressing) |
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#281 (permalink) | |
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U19 Captain
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#282 (permalink) |
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Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 21,196
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Ban abortion and this sort of thing won't happen, of course.
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#283 (permalink) | ||
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International Coach
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#284 (permalink) |
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International Vice-Captain
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Barrow Island, WA
Posts: 4,063
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Third trimester is past the point of return isn't it ?
I know at Quadrant they was a peice recently stating that there was 80,000 abortions over 09-10 and 61 adoptions in Australia. The number has increased exponetially over the past decade. To a religious pro-lifer I can see how this would play to their dislike of abortion, what he proposed though was in increas in adoption and then cited studies showing depression, stress, guilt etc. led to suicides and peverse outcomes in women who had an abortion. I would think adoption would place in their minds similar feelings over many years for a child who is likely to meet them one day and ask 'why?' |
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#285 (permalink) | ||
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Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Jeets' sheets
Posts: 23,374
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The modern anti-abortion movement in the U.S. has nothing to do with being pro-life and everything to do with keeping teh wimminz in their place.
If the Republican Party and those who fund their election campaigns were truly pro-life, their entire philosophy outside of abortion would be completely different.
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