Abortion?

[FaaipDeOiad]

It is?

Sure. Adoption, for example. Obviously it's not reasonable to just neglect it entirely, but you can choose not to raise a baby after it's born, which is one of the various reasons why killing it isn't really a reasonable course of action even though it can't really survive on its own.

I'm mainly responding to the "arguments in favour of abortion are also applicable to new born babies" argument here.

[GIMH]

Ah sure enough, misunderstood you

[silentstriker]

I always found it strange how few people actually take this option up as an alternative to having an abortion.

1. Pregnancy is dangerous.
2. There is stigma and societal pressures associated with pregnancy in certain circumstances (teenager, unwed, product of rape/incest etc)
3. It interrupts the lifestyle (e.g may have to drop out of school, work, etc)

[GIMH]

'Pregnancy is dangerous'

Tobacco companies should replace 'Smoking Kills' with that on the front of the packets, will drive the sales right up

[silentstriker]

Haha probably. You're effectively carrying a rapidly growing parasite for nine months within your body.

[Uppercut]

Should have it written on bottles of tequila tbh.

[slowfinger]

Should have it written on bottles of tequila tbh.

[cover drive man]

[Nnanden]

Really upsets me that something like this is allowed in Australia.

[silentstriker]

Well obviously we disagree on the abortion issue .

My sister was close to being aborted, we laugh about it now. Family planning is so, so important though in our society.

[Spikey]

i ain't watching a 13 min video

[howardj]

I'm ready to fire up.

[Nnanden]

i ain't watching a 13 min video

If I understand it correctly, failed abortions (babies that are born despite an attempted abortion) are now left to die, as it is illegal for the hospital personnel to give them medical assistance.

[Top_Cat]

Pretty misleading (no surprise). For example, the video reckons doctors can't refuse to do an abortion when they have a conscientious objection when the act itself says they are only forced to do one if the mother's life is in danger by not doing it. The bit about there being no counselling is dubious; it's not compulsory but it generally happens in private clinics. Any assertions to the contrary, evidence please. In hospitals, there's a whole team dedicated to exactly that so it won't be a problem there.

The act;

ABORTION LAW REFORM ACT 2008

The bit on late-term (> 24 week) abortions is pretty questionable too. The way this video portrays it, perfectly healthy babies are being aborted willy nilly when the number of late-term abortions are very small, even with the increase (the 600% figure is useless/emotive/without source). In the past 10 years we've seen a massive increase in the ability to screen and diagnose disabilities, either those which result in a child's death early or severely disable them for life so, of course, we're going to see an increase in the late-term abortion rate, especially since most of the worst abnormalities can only be diagnosed post 20 weeks and, in a large proportion of cases, the mother would miscarry. The act gives people the freedom to terminate in these circumstances for reasons which should be really ****ing obvious.

The number of people who terminate late-term without a medical reason relating to the mother or foetus is around zero. Public hospitals won't do it and most clinics won't either. The Victorian Law Reform Commission's report on this very topic names one clinic as providing late-term abortions for non-medical reasons and still their minimum criteria is serious psychological problems with the mother. The AIHW has reasonable data on the issue with the Hospital Mortality Database and a Birth Defects Register (since 1982) so it's not as if the problem is poorly understood.

The VLRC's report from '08;

http://www.lawreform.vic.gov.au/wps/...ion_Report.pdf

Since the 90's, there's been a drop in the abortion rate anyway. Fewer people are having abortions, <1% have one post 20 weeks. It's hardly a perfect system but geez, the way some people would have it, it's full of licensed butchers terminating babies because entitled mothers don't want to ruin their bikini bodies. Late-term abortions generally only happen with some pretty compelling reasons behind it both in hospitals or private clinics. Anyone who gets an abortion outside of those systems, well, that's always been the case and there's not a lot that can be done to stop it. Decriminalising abortion has just meant there's fewer people going with the latter and more with the former where there's a lot more support which is an massive improvement on that which came before.

[Top_Cat]

If I understand it correctly, failed abortions (babies that are born despite an attempted abortion) are now left to die, as it is illegal for the hospital personnel to give them medical assistance.

Nothing in the act about that.