Abortion?

[GIMH]

Originally Posted by GingerFurball

It might take two to create a baby, but once you've shot your load, your job is done.

When's the missus due? You're in for a shock

[GIMH]

I don't think comparing a foetus to a coma patient is really appropriate. At the end of the day, if you chose to not feed a newborn baby there would be nothing it could do about it so it wouldn't be able to survive alone out of the womb either.

This isn't a for or against argument, simply that a coma patient is an entirely different situation.

[GingerFurball]

Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero

When's the missus due? You're in for a shock

5 weeks. Was referring to pregnancy with the "job done" remark.

[Uppercut]

Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero

I don't think comparing a foetus to a coma patient is really appropriate. At the end of the day, if you chose to not feed a newborn baby there would be nothing it could do about it so it wouldn't be able to survive alone out of the womb either.

This isn't a for or against argument, simply that a coma patient is an entirely different situation.

A pretty big proportion of the pro-abortion arguments could also be applied to newborn babies.

[GIMH]

care to elaborate?

[cover drive man]

Originally Posted by Uppercut

A pretty big proportion of the pro-abortion arguments could also be applied to newborn babies.

[FaaipDeOiad]

Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero

I don't think comparing a foetus to a coma patient is really appropriate. At the end of the day, if you chose to not feed a newborn baby there would be nothing it could do about it so it wouldn't be able to survive alone out of the womb either.

This isn't a for or against argument, simply that a coma patient is an entirely different situation.

It's only appropriate in the context of what counts as "murder". There's a difference between being dependant on care from outside sources to survive and being incapable of respiration, organ function etc. Someone who is elderly or disabled or whatever might require constant care and attention to survive, but killing or neglecting them would still be a crime because they're a living person.

A coma patient on life support isn't legally considered to be alive, and the machine is just on until someone decides to turn it off and allow them to die. Similarly, a foetus at 10 weeks barely even qualifies as a human, and certainly isn't capable of any kind of "life" on its own. Calling the termination of a pregnancy at that point of development "murder" is pretty absurd in my eyes.

[Uppercut]

Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero

care to elaborate?

Apart from the "it couldn't survive by itself", there's things like, "it's unfair to force a woman to go through something so difficult against her will", and "unwanted children often have difficult lives". They could all be used just as accurately in favour of killing newborn babies.

FTR I'm exactly like you; find abortion distasteful and wouldn't want one personally but am pro-choice because I don't want to impose my feelings towards it on everybody else. It's really none of my business.

[silentstriker]

TBH, newborns can be left at hospitals, churches, etc if you don't want to take care of one. You can't do that with a 10 week old fetus.

[FaaipDeOiad]

The difference is still about autonomous life. It's perfectly reasonable to choose not to look after an infant for example, but killing it is ending a human life, because while that baby can't feed itself or file a tax return, it can "live" on its own strength. A foetus cannot.

[Uppercut]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

TBH, newborns can be left at hospitals, churches, etc if you don't want to take care of one. You can't do that with a 10 week old fetus.

I always found it strange how few people actually take this option up as an alternative to having an abortion.

[Uppercut]

Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad

The difference is still about autonomous life. It's perfectly reasonable to choose not to look after an infant for example, but killing it is ending a human life, because while that baby can't feed itself or file a tax return, it can "live" on its own strength. A foetus cannot.

I don't really agree with this definition of whether something's alive or not. I don't fully agree with any technical definition of what constitutes a life, though. There's holes in all of them.

I don't feel too strongly on it really. The fact that I disagree with most justifications for abortion is entirely secondary simply because I don't see why anyone who wants to have an abortion should have to justify it to me in the first place. That said, I do get drawn into debates on it a fair bit.

[GIMH]

Originally Posted by Uppercut

I always found it strange how few people actually take this option up as an alternative to having an abortion.

Well obviously there are two main reasons

1 - The fear of regretting the separation/being unable to part with the baby (obviously there are some logic flaws in this line of thought but at the same time it makes a lot of sense)
2 - Not wanting to go through pregnancy

[GIMH]

Originally Posted by FaaipDeOiad

It's perfectly reasonable to choose not to look after an infant for example.

It is?

[PhoenixFire]

Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero

It is?

Under certain circumstances, it certainly is.