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Thread: Abortion?

  1. #136
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cover drive man View Post
    We can't say "Oh I'll deny this child a life, it's too inconvenient/costly." I understand parenthood is a massive life change. Like has already been mentioned, people should take responsibility sexually.
    What if a woman has been raped and fallen pregnant? Is the baby God's little consolation prize?
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  2. #137
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    You can't use that extremely rare circumstance, and roll it out as a justification for abortion in general. If there is any argument for abortion - which is undeniably a termination of a life - then I think Bill Clinton puts it best when he says that abortion should be legal, but very discreet, and very rare.
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  3. #138
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    Clinton gets it spot on again (though this time said spot isnt on interns dress... least he didnt get her pregnant though!)
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  4. #139
    International Coach morgieb's Avatar
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    Pro-choice. It does sound disgusting killing someone, but I think it should be up to the woman whether a baby survives or not. Like it or not, not all contraceptions are 100% perfect, and you still may get drunk or something....
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  5. #140
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howardj View Post
    You can't use that extremely rare circumstance, and roll it out as a justification for abortion in general. If there is any argument for abortion - which is undeniably a termination of a life - then I think Bill Clinton puts it best when he says that abortion should be legal, but very discreet, and very rare.
    If it's legal it's legal. Either your proscribe the circumstances in which it can be carried out, or you don't.

  6. #141
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    Hmm, wonder how many threads there have been on this issue?

    Enjoying the early posts with Murphy's use of emoticons.

    Anyway, I'm sure everyone will be shocked to learn that I'm unreservedly pro-choice.
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  7. #142
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    If it's legal it's legal. Either your proscribe the circumstances in which it can be carried out, or you don't.
    My circumstances would be sexual violation or where the woman's life is endangered.

    I think there's a lot of heat in the debate though.

    Most people are either red hot for it, or red hot against.

    I'm sort of someone who is quietly anti-abortion generally but funnily enough am liberal on other social issues such as censorship, gay marriage.

  8. #143
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by howardj View Post
    My circumstances would be sexual violation or where the woman's life is endangered.

    I think there's a lot of heat in the debate though.

    Most people are either red hot for it, or red hot against.

    I'm sort of someone who is quietly anti-abortion generally but funnily enough am liberal on other social issues such as censorship, gay marriage.
    Yeah look, it's such a personal issue and arguably the most emotive of all. I have my own views on it that are markedly pro-choice. But I'm hardly going to berate someone if they have a completely different view on it to me.

    I think in my own mind that's because it's just such a personal issue. And frankly, who am I to tell a woman what she can and can't do? Then again, who am I to tell someone they're wrong if the very idea of it repulses them?

  9. #144
    International Coach howardj's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think my position on abortion is not entirely internally consistent. I very much have a general anti position, but I can see certain circumstances where I would relent. I'd certainly never raise it at the water cooler though, or have a go at a chick who had one. The problem with debating it is that people tend to be either at one end of the spectrum or the polar opposite. And there's nothing wrong with that, except when those positions are women's rights v human life respectively, it can make for a very shall I say robust and not always civil exchange.

  10. #145
    International Captain cover drive man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    What if a woman has been raped and fallen pregnant? Is the baby God's little consolation prize?
    I was talking about the idea of abortion being available for all options.

    Quote Originally Posted by morgieb View Post
    and you still may get drunk or something....
    I'm sorry but that's a terrible thing to say. What if I get drunk and fall asleep on a train track? Or walk onto the motorway and cause a massive crash? Killing a baby is justifiable because someone got drunk!?
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  11. #146
    International Captain cover drive man's Avatar
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    As for rape, well I think it should be considered there and if the woman is sure she doesn't want the child she should be allowed to abort, it's a tragic circumstance but it would have to be done.

  12. #147
    International Vice-Captain Noble One's Avatar
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    If rape was the only criteria for having an abortion, wouldn't all females just claim rape to get the abortion?

    Just a thought.

  13. #148
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cover drive man View Post
    I used to be pro abortion but thinking about it, if you look at the core fundamental act you are killing a baby. Which, if the child were born would be (quite rightly) severely punished. It's denying a life. I understand there are cases (like rape or incestual rape) Where the Mother can be traumatised by the terrible things that have happened to her. But again it's still killing a baby.

    There's also the case about if an unborn child has a serious medical condition, but doesn't that imply that genetic disorders make you "Undesirable" An almost Hitler-esque viewpoint. I'm quite unsure about this, thought I'd ask your views.
    They are all perfectly legit POVs and dont let anyone tell you otherwise.

    I really dont like abortion. I dont think I could ever have a child of mine terminated and I find the whole concept and idea rather unseemly, however and this is the big HOWEVER I am pro-choice and I will happily defend peoples right to choose.

    Growing up, most of my friends have either had an abortion or their girlfriends had an abortion. It was something I thankfully avoided but I do not judge them or even give it a second thought. Just because I live my life one way doesnt mean I want it applied to the rest of the population. We all live our own life and have to sleep soundly in our own beds at night.

    I am deeply offended, for example, by minors taken for abortions by teachers without their parents consent or without them ever being informed in the UK but, again, that is a secondary issue to abortion itself.

    I dont like abortion, it is something I have avoided, it is something I doubt I could go through with but that is my choice and others may choose differently. I will defend that right to choose.

    I hope people think long and hard about their decisions but of course some will not. That is the currency you have to pay to have that level of freedom.
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  14. #149
    International Coach PhoenixFire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    I am deeply offended, for example, by minors taken for abortions by teachers without their parents consent or without them ever being informed in the UK but, again, that is a secondary issue to abortion itself.
    What if the child in question is under risk of serious violence/abuse from the family if they found out that their child was pregnant? Can imagine that this is quite a common potential situation in some parts of the UK at least.
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  15. #150
    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixFire View Post
    What if the child in question is under risk of serious violence/abuse from the family if they found out that their child was pregnant? Can imagine that this is quite a common potential situation in some parts of the UK at least.
    Gah *spits*

    That is a horrible justification and a complete breakdown of the parent/child relationship. Parents are responsible for their children and to have teachers and the State take that away from them is ****ing ****ing sickening.

    Parents have the right to know what is happening to their children. They are their children. They are responsible for bringing them up within the law.

    I am thankful that I dont live in a country where the rights of a parent are so easily cast aside and the State isnt so overbearing. It is a rights issue.

    The fact that it is almost accepted in the UK shows how out of sync the Brits are with most other places in terms of nanny state and interference in peoples life. This is something that people from other places dont believe happens.

    Anyway, I dont want to get bogged down by this as it makes me angry. The issue is abortion itself.

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