Cricket Betting Site Betway
Page 15 of 20 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast
Results 211 to 225 of 288
Like Tree93Likes

Thread: Value Added to Society by Idle Shareholders and Landlords

  1. #211
    Cricketer Of The Year Ausage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    I'll show ye!!
    Posts
    8,675
    When you have Burgey non-ironically defending free market principles you know you're waaaaay off the deep end.
    Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.

    Too many bones, not enough CASH!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEHMbJ_FVfA
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5oGJTUpbpA

    RIP Craig

  2. #212
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Burgey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    The Castle
    Posts
    67,206
    Markets are fine. They just need the guiding hand of the State to help them obtain the best outcome from time to time. And indeed sometimes to help preserve them.
    WWCC - Loyaulte Mi Lie

    “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
    - JK Galbraith
    Quote Originally Posted by TNT View Post
    You need to clap a cows c**** over your head and get a woolly bull to f**** some sense into you.

    "Do you know why I have credibility? Because I don't exude morality." - Bob Hawke

    #408. Sixty three not out forever.

  3. #213
    Hall of Fame Member weldone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Kolkata->Mumbai->London
    Posts
    15,002
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    I for one welcome a world where I can't buy dinner from a local restaursnt but can buy a sweet, sweet FinTech app.
    not sure if sarcastic, but the restaurant business isn't very capital intensive to start
    "Cricket is an art. Like all arts it has a technical foundation. To enjoy it does not require technical knowledge, but analysis that is not technically based is mere impressionism."
    - C.L.R. James

  4. #214
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    A Blood Rainbow
    Posts
    54,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    When you have Burgey non-ironically defending free market principles you know you're waaaaay off the deep end.
    I honestly have been struggling to read this thread because I just can't compute how you suggest a 50% interest rate with any modicum of seriousness
    Dan and Ikki like this.
    citoyens, vouliez-vous une révolution sans révolution?


  5. #215
    Hall of Fame Member harsh.ag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    India
    Posts
    18,159
    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    I honestly have been struggling to read this thread because I just can't compute how you suggest a 50% interest rate with any modicum of seriousness
    What he's saying though is that owners/founders/active-CEOs etc get to keep the full upside of higher valuation rather than idle shareholders getting the lion's share.

    I mean of course there are serious practical flaws with the plan, the most basic one being that, unless it's done worldwide, any country implementing this would also have to outlaw free outflow of capital.
    ~ Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference ~

  6. #216
    Hall of Fame Member weldone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Kolkata->Mumbai->London
    Posts
    15,002
    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    I honestly have been struggling to read this thread because I just can't compute how you suggest a 50% interest rate with any modicum of seriousness
    not sure why people are so stuck with that 50% number..

    I have mentioned multiple times the rates will be decided by the market based on riskiness of investment. So, for some startups it maybe 23%, 39% for some, and maybe 52% for some. Pick a number from thin air.

  7. #217
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    A Blood Rainbow
    Posts
    54,520
    Quote Originally Posted by weldone View Post
    not sure why people are so stuck with that 50% number..

    I have mentioned multiple times the rates will be decided by the market based on riskiness of investment. So, for some startups it maybe 23%, 39% for some, and maybe 52% for some. Pick a number from thin air.
    These are all also utterly insane numbers, and kind of suggests to me that this idea has very little contact with the real world. At least try and suggest a sensible and realistic framework first before trying to convince people of how great it is.

  8. #218
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Burgey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    The Castle
    Posts
    67,206
    Yeah, these are all pay day loan shark numbers here, mate.

  9. #219
    Hall of Fame Member weldone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Kolkata->Mumbai->London
    Posts
    15,002
    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    These are all also utterly insane numbers, and kind of suggests to me that this idea has very little contact with the real world. At least try and suggest a sensible and realistic framework first before trying to convince people of how great it is.
    Why are you happy with idle shareholders getting 500% return for your hard work, but not happy with loan providers getting 23% is beyond me. You are comparing these rates with the current loan market, but you should rather compare it with what VCs earn.

  10. #220
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Burgey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    The Castle
    Posts
    67,206
    When do idle shareholders get 500% returns? You make it sound as though this is an every day occurrence. It just isn't. It isn't. How is a shareholder raising capital and sitting on their investment for a few years or however long any different to a bloke who shoves his dough in the bank for the same period, and the bank then lends money to the same business? All the shareholder has effectively done is (in very simplistic terms) cut out the middle man by investing directly in the business.

  11. #221
    Hall of Fame Member weldone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Kolkata->Mumbai->London
    Posts
    15,002
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    When do idle shareholders get 500% returns? You make it sound as though this is an every day occurrence. It just isn't. It isn't.
    Whether it's an everyday occurrence is immaterial. Question is: should they have access to the possible unlimited upside? (forget 500%, the upside can be anything even 5000%). Should it be possible for them to have access to this business upside?

    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    How is a shareholder raising capital and sitting on their investment for a few years or however long any different to a bloke who shoves his dough in the bank for the same period, and the bank then lends money to the same business? All the shareholder has effectively done is (in very simplistic terms) cut out the middle man by investing directly in the business.
    Very different. Shareholder 'owns' your business. Although you are the one working, he's technically your big boss, and he has the right to decide who will be your boss. Banks don't dictate how your business will be run, which dress you should wear to office, how you'll be punished for shirking work, and what your canteen can serve for lunch. Banks don't have the right to keep 95% of the fruits of your work - they just provide you moolah and they get back a fixed return agreed in advance. If you still can't see the difference between the two then I give up.
    Last edited by weldone; 13-03-2019 at 05:15 AM.

  12. #222
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Burgey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    The Castle
    Posts
    67,206
    Yeah look, banks kind of do dictate how you run your business, because if you aren't making enough to meet your repayments they foreclose on you.

    Shareholders really don't hold that much power individually, unless they hold a **** load of equity, in whcih case they'll likely have a seat on the board and a say in how the business is run in any event. I mean, if you don't want idle shareholders getting the benefit of your enterprise, don't publicly list the company, keep it in private ownership and try to raise your capital from other sources, like lenders.
    Prince EWS and cpr like this.

  13. #223
    Hall of Fame Member weldone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Kolkata->Mumbai->London
    Posts
    15,002
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    I mean, if you don't want idle shareholders getting the benefit of your enterprise, don't publicly list the company, keep it in private ownership and try to raise your capital from other sources, like lenders.
    (Private companies also have idle shareholders, but ignoring that) Sure, but the loan markets will not open up in the current system and there will always be a supply-demand mismatch.
    Last edited by weldone; 13-03-2019 at 05:21 AM.

  14. #224
    Cricketer Of The Year Ausage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    I'll show ye!!
    Posts
    8,675
    Quote Originally Posted by weldone View Post
    Whether it's an everyday occurrence is immaterial. Question is: should they have access to the possible unlimited upside? (forget 500%, the upside can be anything even 5000%). Should it be possible for them to have access to this business upside?
    A better question is, what are you going to do to stop them?

    You know, as a Libertarian and all.
    Prince EWS likes this.

  15. #225
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
    Tournaments Won: 1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    .
    Posts
    30,100
    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    If the masters' jobs are so easy and good and rewarding when compared to their employees, the employees should go ahead and create businesses and companies of their own. They must be really stupid for not doing that.



    Poor countries have no shortage of people who "work". That's not what drives prosperity.
    So the thing about capital is that you can’t just choose to have lots of it.

Page 15 of 20 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Smilies you'd like to see added/replaced
    By benchmark00 in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 28-05-2011, 03:42 PM
  2. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 13-02-2007, 04:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •