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Thread: General aviation thread

  1. #46
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Don't get me wrong, introducing a new system that directly impacts the controls without notice would be problematic and, incidentally, undermine the Boeing driver's aversion to flying anything French. But, whether the system was actually working or not is a pretty key question.

  2. #47
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    That's why it's too early to say, tbh. Was the system malfunctioning or working as intended?
    The MCAS was apparently being fed bad data by a faulty angle-of-attack sensor
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  3. #48
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    Sure but a lot of things can do that which these guys train and have procedures for. The pitots were frozen initially on AF447 but the cause of that crash was eventually and correctly pinned on the drivers.

    I'm hesitant to monday morning quarterback the pilots, emergency situation and all that. Also Boeing will do the bare legal minimum to fix any issue (such as remind pilots of the existing procedures, as they've done) and the investigation may yet uncover something within the system. However, the same plane had a prima facie similar situation on its previous flight and was landed safely. As you said, a real deal technical problem where thing fails = crashed plane is very unusual these days. Last one I think of is the 777 that crashed at Heathrow years ago and it required a very unusual combination of circumstances.

  4. #49
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Yeah I think the big underlying concern is that Boeing being completely blindsided by the A320neo selling like sliced bread has made then push the 737 beyond its reasonable limits and design a plane which is frankly stall-happy, hence weird systems like MCAS which are, frankly, un-Boeing like. But we'll have to wait and see


  5. #50
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    Capitalism, eh?
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  6. #51
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    TBF you would have to say aviation as close to a model industry wrt safety standards as it's possible to get

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    TBF you would have to say aviation as close to a model industry wrt safety standards as it's possible to get
    Pretty much. But that is as much to do with the fact than losing your entire customer base every time a plane falls out of the sky is bad business rather than some sort of altruism.
    "The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they’ve found it."

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    Altruism is so overrated.

    Not falling out of the sky isn't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    Altruism is so overrated.
    Thank goodness for that.... it is not a popular or common human trait.

  10. #55
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  11. #56
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Think the last thing Boeing needs right now is Trump getting involved. Can only imagine what his old time pilot friends are telling him.

  12. #57
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    https://apnews.com/0cd5389261f34b01a7cbdb1a12421e27

    Airline pilots on at least two U.S. flights have reported that an automated system seemed to cause their Boeing 737 Max planes to tilt down suddenly.

    The pilots said that soon after engaging the autopilot on Boeing 737 Max 8 planes, the nose tilted down sharply. In both cases, they recovered quickly after disconnecting the autopilot.

    As described by the pilots, however, the problem did not appear related to a new automated anti-stall system that is suspected of contributing to a deadly October crash in Indonesia.

    The Max 8 is at the center of a growing global ban by more than 40 countries following a second fatal crash, this time in Ethiopia, in less than five months. In the U.S., however, the Federal Aviation Administration and airlines continued to permit the planes to fly.
    Still really am curious to know just how many bandaids this thing has for what increasingly feels like a design which has been pushed well past its useful limits and is aerodynamically sketchy.

    She'll be right though, exactly the same plane as the NG, just throw a few software fixes on there and recertify, no questions asked /s
    Last edited by Spark; 12-03-2019 at 09:31 PM.

  13. #58
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    Yikes, makes you think. Thankfully I don't work on any "mission-critical" software, so I don't have any blood on my hands, so to speak.
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  14. #59
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    https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-s...n-the-737-max/

    This article scans with a lot of what I've been reading elsewhere and especially why the 737 MAX exists in the first place (rather than the NSA/"early" 797) and how that drove the design decisions that seem to have led us to where we are today. Can't be stressed how much Airbus has changed the game by breaking into the traditionally "if it's not Boeing, I'm not going" US Big Three in a big way. Delta seems to be steadily shifting towards an Airbus-heavy fleet, American is merrily buying up a321neos, even United has a stack of a350s on order.

    Nevertheless I still strongly suspect that this will not end up being a technical story about a plane, but a big story about corporate irresponsibility and regulatory capture in what was once the absolute gold standard.
    Last edited by Spark; 13-03-2019 at 01:11 AM.
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  15. #60
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    So now Canada has grounded the 737 Max 8 and 9, because new information has come to light.
    https://ipolitics.ca/2019/03/13/cana...ax-8-aircraft/

    Garneau said the decision to ground the aircraft in Canada was prompted by new satellite evidence from the Ethiopian Airlines and Lion Air crashes that appeared to signal similarities between the two flight patterns. The crash in Indonesia, he said, was caused by a faulty sensor that caused the autopilot to tilt the plane down suddenly.

    However, Garneau cautioned that it was still too early to definitively link the two crashes but his office decided there was enough evidence to act.

    “We feel that threshold has been crossed and that’s why we are taking these measures,” he said.

    Garneau didn’t offer any timeline for when the investigation would be completed as investigators probing the Ethiopia crash still need to study the black box data for the flight.

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