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Thread: In A Libertarian state how would the poor survive?

  1. #286
    Global Moderator harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    Like yourself, I think it is hard to imagine law enforcement wrt to anarchy but I don't think it is an impossibility or even improbability. For me, a lot of this has to do with culture. We have to reduce the size of government so that the culture between people necessitates private solutions and remedies. That way we can evolve and learn to co-exist without the state. The state in many ways is a technological tool that will be outdated.

    If it's hard to imagine, we should remember that tens of thousands of years ago it was probably hard to imagine what we have now: rows of houses on streets where neighbours, by and large, rarely hurt each other. Where we can gather in stadiums with 100,000 people and violence being relatively rare. It's not something we cannot do but that we need is to create the culture for it in order to progress towards it.

    But as long as statism is the cure to everything, the bonds between us that are defined by our culture, to get along with each other, cannot progress and will require more state force as state dependence becomes the norm.
    Why do you just bypass incentives and only emphasize on culture?
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  2. #287
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    Ausage is such a gun. No one line drive bys, sarcasm, personal attacks, aggression. He explains his position clearly when asked and is pretty much always respectful.

    Regardless of whether you agree with his views I think most of the regulars in this subbie could learn from him.
    Agree with this. Ausage a terrific poster. Many of you have a lot to learn from his posting.
    sledger and Anil like this.

  3. #288
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    Tbh I just posted that for the likes
    vogue likes this.

  4. #289
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    Why do you just bypass incentives and only emphasize on culture?
    I don't understand, incentives in what regard? Incentives are also inbuilt in culture.
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  5. #290
    Global Moderator harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Incentives shape culture too, and beyond that, makes people break norms.

    Good culture won't fix the bad incentives generated by anarchy.

  6. #291
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    Incentives shape culture too, and beyond that, makes people break norms.

    Good culture won't fix the bad incentives generated by anarchy.
    I think you need to frame this question or statement properly. Incentives are always there, it doesn't suggest that just because you may have an incentive to kill someone that you do it. There are a lot of things that are not prohibited by the state that you don't engage in.

  7. #292
    Global Moderator harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    I think you need to frame this question or statement properly. Incentives are always there, it doesn't suggest that just because you may have an incentive to kill someone that you do it. There are a lot of things that are not prohibited by the state that you don't engage in.
    Sure, but "I" am rich. If I was poor and someone I loved was dying for wont of money, there is no telling what I could do in an anarchy.

  8. #293
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    The ‘we can change the culture so that humans behave well enough to make this system work’ line is lifted straight from the Communists.

  9. #294
    International Coach Anil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Agree with this. Ausage a terrific poster. Many of you have a lot to learn from his posting.
    yeah agree with this, don't agree with a lot of what he says, but very even-keeled, respectful & detailed without being long-winded, i certainly have a lot to learn from his style of posting...

  10. #295
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    Sure, but "I" am rich. If I was poor and someone I loved was dying for wont of money, there is no telling what I could do in an anarchy.
    That isn't an anarchy problem, that situation can occur regardless of society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    The ‘we can change the culture so that humans behave well enough to make this system work’ line is lifted straight from the Communists.
    So affecting culture is now communist? I'm pretty sure all ideologies try to affect culture.

    Communists use coercion to change culture. Libertarianism uses freedom.
    Last edited by Ikki; 23-07-2018 at 01:48 AM.

  11. #296
    Global Moderator harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    That isn't an anarchy problem, that situation can occur regardless of society.
    Of course, but the context was "it is hard to imagine law enforcement wrt to anarchy but I don't think it is an impossibility or even improbability".

  12. #297
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    I think the point more was that human nature can or even should be fundamentally rewritten in order to make a certain system work, rather than adapting that system to accommodate human nature, is the sort of blue-sky utopianism usually associated with hippies and Marxists.

  13. #298
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    Of course, but the context was "it is hard to imagine law enforcement wrt to anarchy but I don't think it is an impossibility or even improbability".
    So what's your issue?

    I am not sure how a modern anarchic society would have a policing force but just because there is no state mandated law to police doesn't mean people will not attempt to redress grievances between themselves. It doesn't also mean that people will simply kill each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    I think the point more was that human nature can or even should be fundamentally rewritten in order to make a certain system work, rather than adapting that system to accommodate human nature, is the sort of blue-sky utopianism usually associated with hippies and Marxists.
    What I suggested is neither.
    Last edited by Ikki; 23-07-2018 at 04:13 AM.

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