Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 61
Like Tree72Likes

Thread: Was Karl Marx the most evil man ever?

  1. #46
    Cricketer Of The Year ankitj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    India
    Posts
    8,566
    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    So to answer Spark's question, I've not read any Marx but my understanding is that his key philosophical points were:

    • Humanity should be viewed through a prism of social, racial, religious and cultural (class) groupings
    • Civilisation is the interplay of power dynamics between these groups
    • Those who own the means of production are engaged in oppression against the working class


    Correct me if I'm wrong or missed anything.

    I don't know about "most evil", but the above combination of ideas are dangerous because they're both intoxicating/enticing and infinitely destructive when followed through. There's a reason you can in this day and age see people unironically saying "Marx was right" despite him being a primary influence on the majority of the modern history's most brutal regimes.
    One thing that I have always found fascinating is how Aristotle anticipated and denounced Marxism in one pithy statement without even the benefit of hindsight:

    Quote Originally Posted by Aristotle
    Although quarrels are more likely in an unequal society, striving to rectify the inequality may precipitate the very conflict that the citizenry wants to avoid.
    RIP Phil Hughes. Forever 63*

  2. #47
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
    Tournaments Won: 1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    .
    Posts
    27,160
    Marx's observations arose and caught on because the economy he was basing them on was so obviously a monopsony. From a mid-19thc perspective the subsequent dispersion of market power is pretty remarkable. But it might not have happened if Marx hadn't been so influential. If that's so, Marx made Marx wrong.

    Marx was one of the most anti-modernist thinkers there ever was. His view of history as massive, sweeping, and impossible for an individual to influence. Yet all the horrific attempts to apply his ideas were incredibly modernist. It was always an individual or small group of individuals attempting to massively change the course of history through brute force. That modernism is what Stalin and Mao have in common with Hitler and Pol Pot. That's where the evil comes from.

    Slow day at work so I'm responding seriously to a troll thread.
    Spark likes this.

  3. #48
    Cricket Spectator Ponsford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    18
    May as well say Darwin was the most evil man ever. No-one of that calibre I believe imagines their works are going to be used for evil. Leo Strauss is the best example.

  4. #49
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    The Castle
    Posts
    52,684
    Let alone Levi Strauss and the development of high waisted jeans.


  5. #50
    International Coach Bahnz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Wigton Unzud
    Posts
    12,449
    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Marx's observations arose and caught on because the economy he was basing them on was so obviously a monopsony. From a mid-19thc perspective the subsequent dispersion of market power is pretty remarkable. But it might not have happened if Marx hadn't been so influential. If that's so, Marx made Marx wrong.

    Marx was one of the most anti-modernist thinkers there ever was. His view of history as massive, sweeping, and impossible for an individual to influence. Yet all the horrific attempts to apply his ideas were incredibly modernist. It was always an individual or small group of individuals attempting to massively change the course of history through brute force. That modernism is what Stalin and Mao have in common with Hitler and Pol Pot. That's where the evil comes from.

    Slow day at work so I'm responding seriously to a troll thread.
    Yeah, in terms of the means of seizing and retaining power, men like Lenin and Mao were probably a lot more heavily influenced by 18th century revolutionaries like Gracchus Babeuf and Robespierre than Marx.
    Quote Originally Posted by HeathDavisSpeed View Post
    I can think of a list of Sydney Grade posters who would contribute a better average post than Bahnz.
    Maow like no one can hear you maowing.

  6. #51
    International Captain mr_mister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    australia
    Posts
    7,127
    Pol Pot imo when we discuss which world leader was the worst
    cricket rules brah

  7. #52
    International Coach wpdavid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    11,023
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Let alone Levi Strauss and the development of high waisted jeans.
    Or even Andrew Strauss from your pov.
    GIMH likes this.

  8. #53
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    The Castle
    Posts
    52,684
    Andrew Strauss and the Bounced Catches.

    Sounds like a 1980s garage band.
    WWCC - Loyaulte Mi Lie

    "Hope is the fuel of progress and fear is the prison in which you put yourself" - Tony Benn

    #408. Sixty three not out forever.

  9. #54
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    SWA
    Posts
    57,356
    Haha that reminds me of a cracking post you made in the 09 Ashes. You were predicting the England line up and each player had a nickname. Strauss was Bounce Catch. Swann was Ugly Duckling. Every player had such a name - except Bopara whom was listed as 'Ravi'. Still makes me laugh now

    A great post from you but I suppose a stopped clock is right twice a day
    marc71178 likes this.

  10. #55
    International Captain Gnske's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Dude. I need to get out of Seattle this weekend. This chick is all over my junk and I've got to get away
    Posts
    7,304
    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    I'm kind of curious though, how many people here have actually read any Marx?
    If you wouldn't read Mein Kampf you shouldn't read any Marx.

    Debate that Marxists

  11. #56
    U19 Debutant Munificent_Fool's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    312
    Marx supported Lincoln and the union. Couldn't have been that big of a ****.

  12. #57
    First Class Debutant Indipper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    853
    Eh, I'm kinda tired hearing how wrong Marx is from people who never read anything he wrote and who get most of their material on the topic from their local Tory or some journo who is trying to get his linage up. Marx was philosophically a failure, but even though his historic views are commonly decried as wrong, they had a profound impact on historiography. History in those days was only the history of Great Men, and thanks to Marx, the spotlight was shifted towards the people, their living conditions, their customs, their traditions. Nothing like that had been there before. Though in socialist countries, the historiography was much different, almost religious. Focussed on worker martyrs who died fighting the oppression, the great struggles against fascism etc. His work also remains important for sociology and economics but I am not competent to judge how. So please, pack in the 'Marx was wrong in every conceivable way' stuff. And as for the comparison of Marx and Hitler, that is a bit too obvious trolling. Marx might not have been the Darwin of his movement, more of a Houston Stewart Chamberlain. Hegel is the Darwin of Socialism. So Hitler is... not Lenin, cause that's Mussolini. He is Stalin. Works perfectly.
    vogue, Bijed and Samuel_Vimes like this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    Do you think Jesus would have made a good enforcer in a rugby match?

  13. #58
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
    Cricket Champion! Jackpot Champion!
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Don't leave me Murph!
    Posts
    14,434
    I guess it depends how you define evil. Marx's shortcomings are the shortcomings of the human race, before and after. An inability to appreciate complex systems of individual action and thus consequently a construction of some nonsensical ideal through the faulty perception of his delusions. People who cannot orientate themselves intelligently in this world have to make it about classes and races, which is why it appeals to common people so insidiously. Socialism is on the same sliding scale.

    If not for Marx and his influence, apart from the millions upon millions killed, the world would be far more advanced and able to meet human needs. Maybe it wasn't an intended evil, but his characterisation of the social structure made it inevitable that others would use and abuse. Much like those who would advocate to shut down freedom of speech for reasons even 99% of people would agree with; it is eventually directing the **** into the fan.
    Starfighter and GIMH like this.
    ★★★★★

  14. #59
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    The Castle
    Posts
    52,684
    There was actually a really good doco on Marx's life and work on the box over the weekend. Was an English production, but can't recall who made it. Was pretty itstl.

  15. #60
    Not Terrible Athlai's Avatar
    Duck Hunt Champion! Plops Champion!
    Tournaments Won: 2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    #BlamePhlegm
    Posts
    37,640
    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    I guess it depends how you define evil. Marx's shortcomings are the shortcomings of the human race, before and after. An inability to appreciate complex systems of individual action and thus consequently a construction of some nonsensical ideal through the faulty perception of his delusions. People who cannot orientate themselves intelligently in this world have to make it about classes and races, which is why it appeals to common people so insidiously. Socialism is on the same sliding scale.

    If not for Marx and his influence, apart from the millions upon millions killed, the world would be far more advanced and able to meet human needs. Maybe it wasn't an intended evil, but his characterisation of the social structure made it inevitable that others would use and abuse. Much like those who would advocate to shut down freedom of speech for reasons even 99% of people would agree with; it is eventually directing the **** into the fan.
    Urgh
    Direbirds FTW!
    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    420 BLAZE IT

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2345 LastLast


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. How evil are you?
    By Xuhaib in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 75
    Last Post: 19-11-2009, 02:15 PM
  2. Evil
    By cover drive man in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 03-11-2009, 07:54 PM
  3. Pure Evil
    By sledger in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-06-2008, 04:52 PM
  4. Karl Pilkington
    By twctopcat in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 18-03-2006, 01:26 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •