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Thread: Charlie Gard

  1. #16
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    It's hard to know without knowing the medical details in full, but I am definitely on the side of the hospital/courts. Kids with these diseases often suffer quite a bit before they pass away and it's very hard to see. With that said, I obviously very much sympathize with the parents and I can't imagine being put in such a position and don't blame them at all.

  2. #17
    Evil Scotsman Furball's Avatar
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    Not allowing the parents to take their kid home is weird. I don't get the point of that decision.

    As for his treatment, I know in their shoes I would try anything if I thought it might work. I hope that they're not potentially being exploited for financial gain if they do try and go ahead with whatever treatment they're trying to get in the US.
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  3. #18
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    Yeah I think that's also a key point (though not necessarily here as I think the people they are talking about are reputable clinic/places). With all due respect to libertarian principles, it's very important to have regulation and oversight (as in this case) in healthcare so people just don't get fleeced for all their money by snake oil artists when they're in a vulnerable state. Like when your child is dying and most parents would go bankrupt without even thinking about it if it meant they could be saved. The state does have a responsibility there I think.

  4. #19
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Heard someone say that if this happened in the US, the kid would have died months ago because his parents would have been bankrupted paying for his care.


  5. #20
    Hall of Fame Member FaaipDeOiad's Avatar
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    I'm not really a "sanctity of life" type of person honestly so I'm quite ok with doctors allowing a child to die if they don't think there's a realistic chance of helping them, especially if they think the treatment would cause unnecessary suffering.

    The parents rights issue is an interesting one though - I'm certainly fine with the state taking the decision making out of parents hands in certain cases. Imagine for example if Charlie was treatable, but the parents wanted to go with faith healing or something instead, likely causing him to die. Presumably most people would be fine with the state preventing them from choosing that on behalf of their child. I don't know if I really have strong feelings about this case though, it certainly doesn't sound great to have denied their requests on both issues in succession. But I do think no chance of survival + potential increased suffering should result in doctors refusing to go with a certain treatment.
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  6. #21
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    Some really interesting posts ITT.

    Obviously children have some inalienable rights independently of their parents, and the state should protect those. Do those rights include the right not to undergo massive, unnecessary suffering for no end? I think they probably do. I therefore lean towards the conclusion that the court has probably made the right decision despite the fact that in the shoes of the parents I would quite possibly have behaved in much the same way. Absolutely brutal case to rule on though.
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  7. #22
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    Yeah I think that's also a key point (though not necessarily here as I think the people they are talking about are reputable clinic/places). With all due respect to libertarian principles, it's very important to have regulation and oversight (as in this case) in healthcare so people just don't get fleeced for all their money by snake oil artists when they're in a vulnerable state. Like when your child is dying and most parents would go bankrupt without even thinking about it if it meant they could be saved. The state does have a responsibility there I think.
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    Interested to hear Ausage/PEWS reply to some of the above, some excellent points being raised.

  9. #24
    International Captain Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    Interested to hear Ausage/PEWS reply to some of the above, some excellent points being raised.
    Not sure I have that much to add over my initial statement tbh. I understand that there is a group of professionals that believe that this is not in the best interest of the child (and TC's post makes it a bit clearer) but that was never the issue for me. I think the bar for denying parents the right to have their child treated in this situation should be exceptionally high and it still hasn't been vaulted in my mind. Others think differently.

    One thing I would say is that while much of the commentary has focused on the legality of the decision, the ethical component is a separate issue. I've no doubt that the court system has done a good job in determining whether the hospital's actions are legal, I'm not convinced it's the right thing to do.
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  10. #25
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    What about anti-vaxxer parents?

  11. #26
    International Captain Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    What about anti-vaxxer parents?
    I struggle with this one a lot more. Not only is it the inverse of the Gard situation (parents refusing treatment that has a very clear and obvious benefit to the child) but there is a very real public health risk to them following through on their conspiratorial thinking (I know I'm being generous calling it that).

    I don't know what the answer is. I don't like the idea of Stormtroopers beating down the doors of private homes and shoving needles into children but I think this is one of those situations where their #freedom impinges on the #freedom of others in a very real way so I wouldn't be against some form of intervention.

  12. #27
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    I have a number of cases involving kids' medical treatment where parents have issues with the treatment of their kids, some of those kids having catastrophic injury as a result. In some of those cases the parents want to take their kids elsewhere, or when they question the treatment being given to their child, they're threatened with a referral to child services/ DOCS. And I'm not talking about those parents refusing vaccinations. I'm talking about healthy kids who've gone in for routine procedures and come away with massive brain damage, and when the parents get upset/ angry, they have the threat of intervention thrust upon them. It stinks.

    On in particular is a ridiculous case. When it's done and dusted there's a book in it I reckon.

  13. #28
    International Captain Ausage's Avatar
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    You're feeding my anti-state paranoia here Burgey

    But yeah sounds like awful stuff.

  14. #29
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    AWTAusage

  15. #30
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Bit like the situation with Lyme Disease, not recognised in Australia but know two people who have it. End up having to raise their own funds to get to Germany to pay for treatment.
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