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Thread: Explosion at Ariana Grande concert in Manchester

  1. #46
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    Judging by the location of the blast I wonder if the bomber has possibly been a bit premature in detonating.

    No consolation to the families who have lost loved ones obviously.

  2. #47
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend fredfertang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    Wouldn't surprise me if most of them are British nationals, making deportation a tad tricky.
    Nuttall will be proposing internment

  3. #48
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    Tried too read an article about this I couldn’t finish it, find it very upsetting and sickening.
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    There is an estimated 3000 ISIS jihadists still living in the UK, and the police probably have a fair idea who most of them are because they always perform raids after people have been murdered.

    So the whopping great big question that the people of Manchester should be asking the May government is - why haven't they been deported yet?

    After all, it's not as if anyone would care or miss them.
    First off, it is important to ask where does such an estimate come from?

    Second, why is it that whenever these attacks take place we always hear the same thing "he was known to security forces"?

    I can try and answer part of the question that I posed. The police and security services know full well the type of people that need to be targeted (drunks, drug addicts, people estranged from their families and/or on the edge of society) and yet most if not all anti-terror/extremist strategies target mosques and Islamic schools and what the media will label "moderate Muslims". The security forces in this country, knowing full well who to target (the intelligence services even published a report in 2008 labelling them "Islamic novices") target the complete opposite. It is a failing of epic proportions and I really think the victims of attacks and their families should look to sue against an incompetent police force and/or government.

    On top of all that, 2.8 million Muslims are continuously targeted and demonised by an abhorrently out of control media, which leads to attacks of Muslim women in particular on the streets and mosques and so on.

    Just a terrible lack of governance and every few year it culminates in what happened last night. Just so sad.


  5. #50
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Shri's Avatar
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    Can't wait for the whole idiots attacking sikhs instead of muslims thing to escalate now. /s
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  6. #51
    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    Threat level raised to critical, highest level

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    Would expect that I suppose. Apparently the perp's brother has been taken in for questioning, which isn't surprising either.

    Do you lot have detention laws for terrorist suspects over there which are different to your normal laws? We have them here, where suspects can be held without charge for a lot longer than for other crimes.

  8. #53
    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    I think so yeah. Blair got them through

  9. #54
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Would expect that I suppose. Apparently the perp's brother has been taken in for questioning, which isn't surprising either.

    Do you lot have detention laws for terrorist suspects over there which are different to your normal laws? We have them here, where suspects can be held without charge for a lot longer than for other crimes.
    Yeah, it's the same here. 28 days without charge for any terrorism related offence I think it is.

    It used to be higher pre-2006, but the legislation that allowed this was found to be incompatible with human rights in various cases, and so was done away with.

  10. #55
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    Good old Katie Hopkins advocating genocide as a response.

  11. #56
    Cricketer Of The Year Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    Wouldn't surprise me if most of them are British nationals, making deportation a tad tricky.
    Deportation is a stupid option, but how these people are able to walk free in any western society is a complete mystery to me.

    Like most I'd imagine I have a lot of thoughts about this, but it doesn't feel like the time to go into it all. I feel like the location of profile of the victims just makes this one hit much much harder. Very sincere condolences to anyone even remotely close to this.
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  12. #57
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    So weird day in the office. Rather than shut the building (we're at the other end of Deansgate, so out of the cordoned off zone) they decided we should make it in if we can -90% of people are all fine really, its just the 10% waiting to hear about family members etc.
    Thankfully no one in our building was hurt though - theres a few who this morning were waiting to know more, its just hope and pray the news is good.

    The company were pretty good with us, lots of support if needed, very little work to be done as everything was re-routed to other sites and we just provided overflow support. Originally they knocked an hour off all shifts to help with the commute (naturally transport is a mess at the moment), before deciding to just shut up shop at 4 anyway (some were scheduled to work until 9... I was supposed to be in until 7.30)


    The Arndale was shut because some ****s were ****ing about and causing panic - was all a hoax and they got nicked.
    Oldham General sort of WAS locked down, but not because of a gunman - all A&E's were shut down and people were told to do one unless it was life or death, so every hospital could deal with the casualties coming in.



    What's getting me really is seeing friends of mine appealing for info on their friends. The degree of separation is so small here its hard not to feel it, even if it's not people I personally know...



    Re the terrorist question that Watson asks... As others said, they can't be deported if they are British born, like this man was.
    That's the simple answer, the long one is more complex

    The security services know an awful lot more than you'd expect about Terrorism in the UK, plenty to make a raid or 5 just after an attack. However beforehand its a lot different. The truth is the person doing the attack is just the footsoldier, and they want the generals. Which means letting the footsoldiers carry on unsuspecting, in the hope that they make a mistake, or reveal a vital link to someone further up the chain. Pluck away the weeds too soon and the roots remain hidden, ready to re-sprout later when you don't expect it (and far more careful not to expose themselves until the last second). So surveillance is usually pretty good - however gathering hard facts like targets, dates etc is the difficult bit.
    The problem then is either before an attack, or if they get spooked, the terrorist goes underground and disappears, and thats panic stations for the services - at that point all their intelligence goes out of the window and its a cat and mouse game where they need to grab him as soon as he appears.....Because the terrorist is not going to wait 2 weeks to hit the event he wants, he's going to hide, then spring out ASAP and hit the next feasible target he can find so as not to 'waste' his plans. Its a fair bet that the concert last night was hit not because it was planned, but because the arena had been scoped out (clearly, they hit it at the optimum location for carnage) and waiting until even Friday (Take That's much bigger gig) ran the risk of their attack being foiled.

    It looks like last nights he was probably aware he'd now been tagged by the services, so quickly broke from his daily routine, grabbed his gear for whatever he was planning in the next few weeks, and dashed for the nearest event hoping to get there before the services could stop him - most of the time they fail, but this one got through. Today the known networks been rolled up, but alas the real brains behind it are probably hiding elsewhere, now being more cautious with their next plans because this one nearly got foiled.
    Last edited by cpr; 23-05-2017 at 05:36 PM.
    Burgey, morgieb, zorax and 8 others like this.
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    Deportation is a stupid option, but how these people are able to walk free in any western society is a complete mystery to me.

    Like most I'd imagine I have a lot of thoughts about this, but it doesn't feel like the time to go into it all. I feel like the location of profile of the victims just makes this one hit much much harder. Very sincere condolences to anyone even remotely close to this.
    Because you can't lock someone up for not yet committing a crime, even a known lunatic arsehole.

    So if we assume that deportation is out-of-the-question then it appears that the UK has a problem with no solution at all.

    On the bright-side the Mi5 did foil 12 terrorist attacks last year.
    Last edited by watson; 23-05-2017 at 05:40 PM.

  14. #59
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend _Ed_'s Avatar
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    That's a fantastic post, cpr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ripper868 View Post
    Terrible tragedy. And then you get ****wits like this guy...Attachment 23378
    I hope the link to this twitter feed works. Lady at a terror attack about four years ago tells about what the media was like. Really bad stuff.

    https://twitter.com/DrEm_79/status/866948006498717697

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