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Thread: 2017 NZ General Election

  1. #31
    International Coach hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs View Post
    I thought caring about protecting house prices and a generally anti-immigrant sentiment was a right-wing thing.


    Sorry, by "protecting our house prices" I meant "desiring lower/reasonable house prices"

    NZ house prices are high, and continue to grow higher. A lot of left-wing sentiment argues or subtly hints that immigration is the issue, and even the mainstream left is not far removed from the "keep New Zealand for New Zealanders" sentiment; it starts off with an attack on wealthy investors, but very much targets immigrants too, as obviously they're a source of demand in a higher seller-friendly market.

    The actual problems are a) lack of capital gains tax on property which makes it a much better investment than anything else and b) just general geographic trends with a low population density but sharp sharply growing urban areas such as Auckland that haven't had proper densification planning, creating vicious cycles of urban sprawl.
    Last edited by hendrix; 07-03-2017 at 10:55 PM.
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  2. #32
    International Coach hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    True, but I haven't seen any serious analysis of a UBI that doesn't conclude that - even after eliminating all the inefficiencies of the welfare system - a UBI will require significant tax increases to fund. So in that sense, referring to it as wealth redistribution is really the more honest way to describe it.
    OK, but there are social benefits that aren't so overtly...socialist, so to speak. Such as reduced student debt, more flexibility in work/lifestyle etc etc.

    Out of interest, what analyses are you talking about? I would be interested to look over some genuine number-crunching attempts.

  3. #33
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend _Ed_'s Avatar
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    Very mixed feelings about today's developments. First and foremost, good riddance to Andrew and yay for Jacinda - she's the obvious choice and it's about ****ing time.

    On the other hand, she doesn't have much time to work with here. I'm a bit concerned that if she doesn't deliver a miracle come-from-behind election win, they'll do the usual Labour thing and throw her out to give someone else a go. She's too good for that and will make an excellent PM at some stage, so I hope she's given a decent run regardless of this year's result.

    But whatever happens, it's nice to have a Labour leader I like for the first time in about four years. It makes the party vote a very easy choice for me in 2017.

    As for my electorate, I'll actually be voting National for the first time in my life. Strange feeling. But regardless of his party affiliations, Reti has done a lot of great things for Whangarei already and I'm happy to give him my support.
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  4. #34
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    I think it's probably the right choice. Ardern is popular, talented and attractive (I know it's superficial but that matters in politics as it does in most professions - you only have to take a look at Justin Trudeau's gravity defying approval ratings to appreciate that). Labour will get a solid bounce from this, and even if they lose (which I'd say is still about 90% likely at this point) that will provide Ardern with a mandate from which to push on to 2020.

    Not sure what they're going to do with all the Little-themed promotional work. They can presumably edit the TV ads to include a new voice over and a quick cut to Ardern. But replacing all the billboards will probably be difficult at this point - maybe they should just print out a bunch of Ardern stickers and stamp them over Little's face?
    Last edited by Bahnz; 31-07-2017 at 06:11 PM.
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  5. #35
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    Yeah thought that they left it too late and Little should've stuck around, but once he said he considered stepping down he pretty much guaranteed it. There was no way Labour was going to recover from there. Will be very interested to see what the polls say now, I was already voting for labour but like Ed I'm going to be decidedly more enthusiastic about it now.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    I think it's probably the right choice. Ardern is popular, talented and attractive (I know it's superficial but that matters in politics as it does in most professions - you only have to take a look at Justin Trudeau's gravity defying approval ratings to appreciate that). Labour will get a solid bounce from this, and even if they lose (which I'd say is still about 90% likely at this point) that will provide Ardern with a mandate from which to push on to 2020.

    Not sure what they're going to do with all the Little-themed promotional work. They can presumably edit the TV ads to include a new voice over and a quick cut to Ardern. But replacing all the billboards will probably be difficult at this point - maybe they should just print out a bunch of Ardern stickers and stamp them over Little's face?
    Weren't the billboards mostly the two of them?

  7. #37
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    Are they? I've only seen one like this:


  8. #38
    International Coach hendrix's Avatar
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    Grant Robertson was the man I wanted and I was damn pissed at the union vote getting Little in there. His policies have been absolute shite. Good riddance.
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  9. #39
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend _Ed_'s Avatar
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    Yeah, Grant did get unfairly shafted last time. I would definitely have preferred him at that stage as well. His time has probably passed now, but I'm sure an Ardern cabinet would have him in a high-ranking position.
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  10. #40
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    Yeah while being way more union sympathetic now that I work in a field than I was, the unions puppetting the Labour leadership at the expense of every other centrist/centre left group is terrible for NZ politics.

    i'm glad Labour now have someone who has walked in off the street and formed their own opinions rather than had their opinions decided for them.

    With a bit of luck National will get run hard enough to clean out deadweight trash like Bridges and Bennett and Winston will fall into the ocean and drown but a man can only dream
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    Sorry, by "protecting our house prices" I meant "desiring lower/reasonable house prices"

    NZ house prices are high, and continue to grow higher. A lot of left-wing sentiment argues or subtly hints that immigration is the issue, and even the mainstream left is not far removed from the "keep New Zealand for New Zealanders" sentiment; it starts off with an attack on wealthy investors, but very much targets immigrants too, as obviously they're a source of demand in a higher seller-friendly market.

    The actual problems are a) lack of capital gains tax on property which makes it a much better investment than anything else and b) just general geographic trends with a low population density but sharp sharply growing urban areas such as Auckland that haven't had proper densification planning, creating vicious cycles of urban sprawl.
    This is a bad problem in general, including Indian cities. You have to pay upto Rs. 50K/month as rent for a small apartment in Mumbai FFS.

    It should never be possible to earn a full-time income through renting out property alone.
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  12. #42
    International Coach hendrix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs View Post
    This is a bad problem in general, including Indian cities. You have to pay upto Rs. 50K/month as rent for a small apartment in Mumbai FFS.

    It should never be possible to earn a full-time income through renting out property alone.
    In Auckland it's also been a problem causes by backwards council planning that doesn't allow apartment buildings anywhere outside of a small central city.

  13. #43
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    it sucks that it's political suicide to get tough on the auckland voting bloc

    "you have to go upwards, not outwards, cities are expensive and don't allow for idyllic suburbia because they're cities" = you less relevant than john banks now is
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  14. #44
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    In Auckland it's also been a problem causes by backwards council planning that doesn't allow apartment buildings anywhere outside of a small central city.
    Which of course is no longer true as of the latest Auckland unitary plan, which is all about the transport hubs.

    As an owner of Auckland property, I'm possibly coming from a slightly selfish POV in being worried about the possibility of a Labour, Greens and NZF coalition. So while National might be polling well above Labour individually, that 3-way coalition isn't that unlikely a prospect is it?

    I must confess to being generally fairly bored with NZ politics in the last few years, so haven't been following too closely.

  15. #45
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    I'm not impressed with any of the parties and their policies. The scary thing is that the old racist populist king-maker actually looks like the best option, and I have never ever considered for NZF in my life! I also think Davis is a really odd choice for deputy. He's not on the list and could lose to Hone Harawira (Mana Party) in Te Tai Tokerau. Besides wouldn't it be better for Labour to grease up Hone and get him as another potential coalition partner?

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