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Thread: Feminism thread

  1. #631
    International Coach hendrix's Avatar
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    It's probably more a complaint at the two-party situation in the US than anything else really. Frequently you have people complaining that their party doesn't represent their interests on both sides.
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  2. #632
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    but rarely is it put into article form.
    It’s often put into policy form.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    ok, that was a weird article. So she's going to sit on the sidelines if her agenda isn't taken up and let a much worse agenda come into effect because of her inaction?
    She's presumably still going to vote for them, but few people can be arsed to actively campaign for a less-terrible political cause.

  4. #634
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    it's a ridiculously stupid article. But it's the kind of talking point the Ds have backed up for so long that has made them the jokes they are today. It would serve them well to move away from this nonsensical identity politics but they've gone too far one way to now go back, even when it is going headfirst into the ****. If the Ds want the classical liberal or the centrists and independents to get on board again, they have to actually do things to move away from exactly these kinds of people - who will not be appeased, short of white people giving up their jobs to brown people or some other nonsense like that.
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  5. #635
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    Imagine getting that attached to a bloody political party.

    Maybe I'm just cynical.
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  6. #636
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    An honest discussion on the merits of that article (which I agree is not very impressive, mostly because of how utterly anodyne and, well, detached from the political reality of the US right now) should start with the acknowledgement that the Dems are probably going to absolutely cream the midterms next year, even if Trump's approval rating improves a bit. The article makes more sense from a moral than an electoral POV, because it's pretty obvious what the Dem formula will be to take a very large number of seats next year: turnout the extremely angry base (esp black people), flip non-evangelical college educated whites (especially white women) and encourage the rest to stay home.
    Last edited by Spark; 18-12-2017 at 06:29 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    An honest discussion on the merits of that article (which I agree is not very impressive, mostly because of how utterly anodyne and, well, detached from the political reality of the US right now) should start with the acknowledgement that the Dems are probably going to absolutely cream the midterms next year, even if Trump's approval rating improves a bit. The article makes more sense from a moral than an electoral POV, because it's pretty obvious what the Dem formula will be to take a very large number of seats next year: turnout the extremely angry base (esp black people), flip non-evangelical college educated whites (especially white women) and encourage the rest to stay home.
    ‘A week is a long time in politics’, let alone 11 months. Plus the Dem’s are still in disarray with Pelosi a complete joke.

  8. #638
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    ‘A week is a long time in politics’, let alone 11 months. Plus the Dem’s are still in disarray with Pelosi a complete joke.
    Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of getting literally everything political prediction wrong over the last year and showing no self-awareness of that fact

  9. #639
    Cricketer Of The Year ankitj's Avatar
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    Sobering and eye opening.

    YOU have applied for a job and the interviewer asks you a question that lands like a bombshell: do you have a boyfriend? Then another: do people find you desirable? And a third: do you think it is important for women to wear bras to work? If you are a woman you probably know what you would do. Perhaps you would refuse to answer, complain or walk out. You would certainly be furious.

    This is how 197 female American undergraduates, asked to imagine such an interview, said they would react. But they—and probably you—were wrong. The psychologists who asked them, Marianne LaFrance and Julie Woodzicka, orchestrated a real-life version of this ordeal, by advertising for a research assistant and arranging for male accomplices to interview the first 50 women who applied. Half were randomly chosen to be asked those three questions. Not one refused to answer, let alone complained or walked out. When they were asked afterwards (and offered the chance to apply for a real job), they said they had felt not anger, but fear.

    An ethics review board had let the experiment go ahead when it was assured that the interviewers would go no further than off-colour questions. And yet videos of the interviews showed how much this supposedly minor sexual harassment threw the women off their stride. They plastered on fake smiles, ummed and ahhed, paused and trailed off more often than the control group. Ms LaFrance, who studies non-verbal communication, says they “screwed up the interviews”.

    In a final twist, the researchers showed clips of the videos to male MBA students. Fake smiles are fairly easy to tell from real ones: they involve fewer facial muscles and do not crinkle the corners of the eyes. But many of the men saw the women as amused, even flirtatious. Men often lack the motivation to read the signs of women’s feelings, says Ms LaFrance. But they can learn if they want to. When she offered course credit to the students who learned to spot the fake smiles, plenty succeeded.

    This experiment was carried out in 2001, long before the events of 2017 blew open the extent of sexual harassment of women at work by powerful men. But it was a masterful demonstration of how such abuse works—and of the misconceptions that have enabled it to continue for so long. It revealed the differences between what women think they would do if they were sexually harassed and what they actually do; between the perception of verbal harassment as trivial and the harm it causes to women’s work performance; between women’s and men’s notions of what counts as sexual harassment; and between women’s feelings and men’s perceptions of them.
    https://www.economist.com/news/inter...e-about-sexual
    Last edited by ankitj; 23-12-2017 at 10:38 PM.
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  10. #640
    International Vice-Captain vogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ankitj View Post
    Very interesting and thought provoking.
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  11. #641
    Cricketer Of The Year ankitj's Avatar
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    While I quoted the most eye opening (according to me) part of the article, full article is a very nuanced take on what can help achieve the current movement a lasting impact on workplace harassment and what can derail it. It draws parallels with other social reform movements of past too. Very good read.
    Last edited by ankitj; 24-12-2017 at 04:44 AM.

  12. #642
    Cricketer Of The Year ankitj's Avatar
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    On Feminism and more:

    Fathom ? Feminism in Israel | Authoritarian governance and Islamist ideology versus women?s rights: an interview with Elham Manea

    AJ: And the main findings?

    EM: The moment the state starts to situate rights within a group frame rather than an individual frame the outcome will likely be segregation, inequality and discrimination. The weakest will be left vulnerable, subject to abuse and discrimination. This is the main consequence of legal pluralism, whether weak or strong.

    A key consequence of introducing weak legal pluralism and with it Islamic law in Western legal systems will be a stratified citizenry, involving two types of women: Western women who can enjoy their rights based on the state’s laws, and migrant women who cannot. The system in the UK has in effect created these two types of citizens; one enjoys equality before the law and the other does not because of their religious identity. These women suffer from the double discrimination syndrome: in addition to gender discrimination they are also denied access to their legal rights. Indeed, this stratification will only further cement the walls around the closed parallel societies existing in the UK.

    In addition, the system is, de facto, legitimising polygamous marriages, and facilitating child marriage and forced marriage – all related to the type of Islamic jurisprudence implemented in the UK.

    Most significantly for the cohesion and unity of society and the fight against extremism, soft legal pluralism has continued to separate minority groups from the wider society and has given Islamists a free hand in reinforcing their social control over closed communities. The issue is not only the use being made of the law by conservative clerics and imams. Islamists often control British sharia councils, and those working in the sharia councils often display the ideological and political features of Islamism.

    AJ: You trace the roots of the support offered by some western liberals to the introduction of Sharia to what you call ‘the essentialist paradigm’. Can you explain what the central features of this paradigm are?

    EM: The essentialist paradigm is characteristic of Western academic post-colonial and post-modern discourse and has dominated it for far too long. It treats people as belonging to homogeneous groups, essentialising their cultures and religions. It underestimates its own deleterious impact, as an academic and political discourse, on human rights. It discards the voices of people who it deems as being ‘not authentic’ representatives of a culture conceived as singular and unchanging.

    Four features characterise the essentialist paradigm:

    1. It combines multiculturalism as a political process with a policy of soft legal pluralism, dividing people along into cultural, religious and ethnic silos, treating individuals differently on account of their ‘cultural differences,’ in the process setting them apart and placing them in parallel legal enclaves.
    2. It perceives rights from the perspective of the group: the group has rights, not the individuals within it. It insists that each group has a collective identity and culture, an essential identity and culture, which should be protected and perpetuated even if doing so violates the rights of individuals within the group.
    3. It is dominated by a cultural relativist approach to rights (in both its forms, as strong and soft cultural relativism), and believes that rights and other social practices, values and moral norms are culturally determined.
    4. It is haunted by the white man’s/woman’s burden caused by a strong sense of shame and guilt over the Western colonial and imperial past and a paternalistic desire to protect minorities or people from former colonies.

  13. #643
    Cricketer Of The Year ankitj's Avatar
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    UK has done some massive study on gender pay gap. What do you guys think it shows? From what I have read it really doesn't show that discrimination is the cause of pay gap. Lazy to write more but what do others think?

  14. #644
    The Tiger King smalishah84's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ankitj View Post
    UK has done some massive study on gender pay gap. What do you guys think it shows? From what I have read it really doesn't show that discrimination is the cause of pay gap. Lazy to write more but what do others think?
    Can you please post a link?
    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

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  15. #645
    Global Moderator harsh.ag's Avatar
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    There are some countries now where discrimination is not part of the cause of the pay gap.
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