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Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #10276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Yep.

    It all comes down to this, Trump and supporters still can't stomach a black in the Whitehouse but a woman may be even worse.
    The meltdowns are going to be great, just hoping things don't turn violent when the babies start having their tantrums.

  2. #10277
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossTaylorsBox View Post
    You obviously don't pay any attention to Donald Trump if you think he isn't an authoritarian.
    Yeah. Curious use of the term "individualism" also.

  3. #10278
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Spikey's Avatar
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    i love how trump just did the voter fraud thing
    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blo...cricket-legacy

    Brad McNamara ‏@bbuzzmc
    Will say this once and then nothing else. Defamation laws quite clear in Aus.be careful.

  4. #10279
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    I'm curious if he genuinely believes the election is rigged or he's just getting the excuses ready when he loses. Probably both.


  5. #10280
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Top_Cat's Avatar
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    It's also what his base wants to hear. If he wins, it'll be because there was no fraud because he and all the other patriots oversaw a fair election.

  6. #10281
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    https://www.ft.com/content/7dc39954-...c-bdf38d484582

    Donald Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner has informally approached one of the media industry’s top dealmakers about the prospect of setting up a Trump television network after the presidential election in November.
    Wow ok.

  7. #10282
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    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    Don't find that particularly surprising, the Trump luxury brand is finished because his base can't afford it. This is the new brand.
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  8. #10283
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    I really hate this line of thinking

    "I know its extremely bloody hard, but it's not technically impossible, so why complain?"
    What a strawman that's not what he said and your argument to the contrary isn't even close to being true. Ausage's point is spot on...for the most part, it's very straightforward to live a comfortable existence for most places in the west. In Australia it's still relatively easy. Relative being the key word. Perspective and a sense of history is lost here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    What's wrong with someone toughing it out in their younger years to learn a skill/trade and make money off the investment of their time later on in life? Your scenario seems absolutely reasonable to me and I say that as someone who almost word for word experienced it (wasn't quite poverty, working class/broken home is about right). I'm not even particularly wealthy and there's no "irony" in me saying this.

    I don't agree with wealthy parents providing opulence for their children, particularly into adulthood, but what's the alternative? Take the money they earned away from them? Restrict them from distributing their money as they see fit? Why would the kid from the broken home bother when working hard and being successful results in a scenario where your money is taken away from you?

    The world isn't fair but someone getting a leg up from their parents doesn't do anywhere near as much to hold others down as you want to admit.
    Exactly. People argue it as a given that being able to get rich and give it to your kids or inheritors is a bad thing. It's actually a very good thing. While actors in the economy are self-interested, it also extends to the interests of their family and if they gain their wealth legitimately why shouldn't their generations of relatives live comfortably? If they want to piss on their money that's their prerogative, it shouldn't be upto envious onlookers to bring in people with guns to take it off them.

    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post

    But yes, in my ideal world, the privileged/well off/successful contribute in some ways (such as taxes) to help out those who aren't as lucky.

    In my ideal world we also don't assume to poor to be lazy leeches. We don't assume the worst in people. We assume that, provided the right circumstances, all people want to work hard and contribute and accomplish things. We then work to help provide such circumstances to everyone. We work as a community to ensure that everyone can enjoy a basic minimum standard of living, and we look to provide opportunities for everyone to work and enjoy life. Life won't be seen as a competition. Profit isn't the incentive. We don't look at the poor and just tell them to 'work harder', with the implication that if they don't get out of their scenario, it is entirely their fault, and that they aren't entitled to help and support from the rest of us.
    They already do...unless they've gotten their wealth by illegal or immoral means; they've added value to society by offering something the rest of the people want in return for money. It's already a fair exchange. They do more for people than charities or government programs. The wealth of our modern world hinges on this fact. I help you do x, y and z or provide you a, b and c so you don't have to pay more or spend more of your time doing it.

    Your post just stereotypes political arguments. Some people do think others are lazy and aren't contributing, but that's not the consensus point of people who advocate more individual and voluntary action. The irony is, it is this viewpoint that truly has the positive outlook on people because you're encouraging them to believe in themselves or the hard work that they do. Another conflation is with profit being a bad thing. Profit is an indicator that the enterprise is actually providing value and enables that enterprise to extend their reach to help provide more value.

    Unfortunately, you're not really listening to the other side's arguments. You're railing against the bastardisation of these ideals by the political power you support.
    Last edited by Ikki; 17-10-2016 at 09:13 AM.
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  9. #10284
    I can't believe I ate the whole thing NZTailender's Avatar
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    The first generation makes the money.
    The second generation sits on that wealth.
    The third pisses it away.

    The problem we have now is we have a lot of the third generation thinking they were the first generation, and ruining it for a lot of people with their subsequent attitude. However if you think all rich people are bad (#notallrichpeople) and whose wealth doesn't, at times, have positive impact on other lives, then your view of the world is pretty narrow too.

    Mind you, middle class repression probably has a lot to answer for.
    Last edited by NZTailender; 17-10-2016 at 03:20 PM.
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  10. #10285
    International Captain Redbacks's Avatar
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    Is Trump just aiming to be Cartman news in the real world...

    I guess to protect his ego he could call it a 'joke' run for president, with the real intent of starting a TV network.
    Last edited by Redbacks; 17-10-2016 at 04:40 PM.

  11. #10286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    What a strawman that's not what he said and your argument to the contrary isn't even close to being true. Ausage's point is spot on...for the most part, it's very straightforward to live a comfortable existence for most places in the west. In Australia it's still relatively easy. Relative being the key word. Perspective and a sense of history is lost here.



    Exactly. People argue it as a given that being able to get rich and give it to your kids or inheritors is a bad thing. It's actually a very good thing. While actors in the economy are self-interested, it also extends to the interests of their family and if they gain their wealth legitimately why shouldn't their generations of relatives live comfortably? If they want to piss on their money that's their prerogative, it shouldn't be upto envious onlookers to bring in people with guns to take it off them.



    They already do...unless they've gotten their wealth by illegal or immoral means; they've added value to society by offering something the rest of the people want in return for money. It's already a fair exchange. They do more for people than charities or government programs. The wealth of our modern world hinges on this fact. I help you do x, y and z or provide you a, b and c so you don't have to pay more or spend more of your time doing it.

    Your post just stereotypes political arguments. Some people do think others are lazy and aren't contributing, but that's not the consensus point of people who advocate more individual and voluntary action. The irony is, it is this viewpoint that truly has the positive outlook on people because you're encouraging them to believe in themselves or the hard work that they do. Another conflation is with profit being a bad thing. Profit is an indicator that the enterprise is actually providing value and enables that enterprise to extend their reach to help provide more value.

    Unfortunately, you're not really listening to the other side's arguments. You're railing against the bastardisation of these ideals by the political power you support.
    I take it you mean that collectively, as opposed to one person?
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  12. #10287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    What a strawman that's not what he said and your argument to the contrary isn't even close to being true. Ausage's point is spot on...for the most part, it's very straightforward to live a comfortable existence for most places in the west. In Australia it's still relatively easy. Relative being the key word. Perspective and a sense of history is lost here.




    Exactly. People argue it as a given that being able to get rich and give it to your kids or inheritors is a bad thing. It's actually a very good thing. While actors in the economy are self-interested, it also extends to the interests of their family and if they gain their wealth legitimately why shouldn't their generations of relatives live comfortably? If they want to piss on their money that's their prerogative, it shouldn't be upto envious onlookers to bring in people with guns to take it off them.



    They already do...unless they've gotten their wealth by illegal or immoral means; they've added value to society by offering something the rest of the people want in return for money. It's already a fair exchange. They do more for people than charities or government programs. The wealth of our modern world hinges on this fact. I help you do x, y and z or provide you a, b and c so you don't have to pay more or spend more of your time doing it.

    Your post just stereotypes political arguments. Some people do think others are lazy and aren't contributing, but that's not the consensus point of people who advocate more individual and voluntary action. The irony is, it is this viewpoint that truly has the positive outlook on people because you're encouraging them to believe in themselves or the hard work that they do. Another conflation is with profit being a bad thing. Profit is an indicator that the enterprise is actually providing value and enables that enterprise to extend their reach to help provide more value.

    Unfortunately, you're not really listening to the other side's arguments. You're railing against the bastardisation of these ideals by the political power you support.
    Beat me to it, Well said.

  13. #10288
    International Captain Redbacks's Avatar
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    At least the next republican candidate can hopefully run on the fact that 'I'm not an unhinged ****head' and appeal to sensible (somewhat at least) policy.

    I think Bill Maher is right to point out that the supposed 'leadership' should have shot Trump down as soon as the birther stuff was coming out. They created the monster by not consistently denouncing him, a bit late now to say 'oops' and claim the moral high ground. Probably the one thing Trump had right, the current mob are uninspiring and weak.
    Last edited by Redbacks; 17-10-2016 at 06:12 PM.

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  15. #10290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbacks View Post
    At least the next republican candidate can hopefully run on the fact that 'I'm not an unhinged ****head' and appeal to sensible (somewhat at least) policy.

    I think Bill Maher is right to point out that the supposed 'leadership' should have shot Trump down as soon as the birther stuff was coming out. They created the monster by not consistently denouncing him, a bit late now to say 'oops' and claim the moral high ground. Probably the one thing Trump had right, the current mob are uninspiring and weak.
    Should have done it four years ago, but instead they let the Tea Party genie out of its bottle.



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