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Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #8986
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Zinzan's Avatar
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    I'm not talking about me specifically here, I use 'we' as a collective, I'm referring to this conversation as a whole and the tendency for people questioning extreme left behaviour to be labelled with a variety of those lovely buzzwords. It just seem to halt any meaningful discussion taking place, which is a great shame.

    It's a fact BLM and other extreme groups have made an awful habit recently of hi-jacking and gatecrashing any speech they disagree with in a violent & destructive manner, so much so that many colleges have boycotted speech from the other side to be allowed at all. They're somehow under this impression that it's their right under the 'free-speech umbrella' to stop others expressing any alternate view at all. Hence why they need to a re-education of what free-speech actually is.

    The fact it's been made out to be a crime of the century for anyone to call a spade a spade on some of this disgusting recent violent conduct, seems quite bizarre, even acknowledging that there's hardly been a perfect history of racial & gender equality in the US.

    Two wrongs don't make a right.
    Last edited by Zinzan; 24-09-2016 at 09:09 PM.

  2. #8987
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    It's probably because the majority of racists only bring up the "extreme left" as a weak justification for their terrible opinions, rather than actually wanting to engage in any meaningful discussion. I don't really see how much Very Serious Discussion you can have about a YouTube video anyway, but we can try if you like.

  3. #8988
    Cricketer Of The Year Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossTaylorsBox View Post
    Um, you're allowed to freely say whatever the hell you want about anyone. Just like anyone else is free to call you a garbage racist or Islamophobe if they think you're being one. There's literally nothing stopping your free speech and I'm not sure why you keep insisting there is some sort of issue here.
    It's an issue of definitions.

    You can call someone sexist if they say women are dopes that should stay in the kitchen or you can do so if they question the validity of the all encompassing theory of patriarchy. You can call someone a racist if they say black people are genetically inferior to White people or you can do so when someone says that black communities need to do more to improve their own conditions. If you do more of the latter and less of the former then you shouldn't be surprised when people who don't share your definition call it bullshit and stop listening to what you say.
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  4. #8989
    International Coach Gnske's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    that black communities need to do more to improve their own conditions.
    Nah they need the evil white boy to do that for them.
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  5. #8990
    Cricketer Of The Year Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnske View Post
    Nah they need the evil white boy to do that for them.
    It's ok. I'm sure the government will solve all their problems.

  6. #8991
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    It's an issue of definitions.

    You can call someone sexist if they say women are dopes that should stay in the kitchen or you can do so if they question the validity of the all encompassing theory of patriarchy. You can call someone a racist if they say black people are genetically inferior to White people or you can do so when someone says that black communities need to do more to improve their own conditions. If you do more of the latter and less of the former then you shouldn't be surprised when people who don't share your definition call it bullshit and stop listening to what you say.
    So in other words, you agree with me that people are free to say and listen to whatever they want.

  7. #8992
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossTaylorsBox View Post
    It's probably because the majority of racists only bring up the "extreme left" as a weak justification for their terrible opinions, rather than actually wanting to engage in any meaningful discussion. I don't really see how much Very Serious Discussion you can have about a YouTube video anyway, but we can try if you like.
    You're actually inadvertently making my point quite perfectly here in that regardless of whether people are genuinely contemning extreme behaviour from BOTH sides, the popular (or default) meme is to throw ANYONE who contemns the left stuff into this little fixed box of only doing do as 'a weak justification for their terrible opinions' (to use your words). So yeah, how the hell can a serious meaningful conversation ever take place if that is the fixed narrative?

  8. #8993
    Cricketer Of The Year Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossTaylorsBox View Post
    So in other words, you agree with me that people are free to say and listen to whatever they want.
    In a legal sense there are some generally reasonable restrictions. In a social sense the restrictions are much tighter and having nuanced discussions on this stuff is hard enough without having to wade through very serious character accusations. So people (particularly public figures) don't risk it and we don't get the free and open discussion we need to really solve these complex multi faceted problems.

  9. #8994
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzan View Post
    You're actually inadvertently making my point quite perfectly here in that regardless of whether people are genuinely contemning extreme behaviour from BOTH sides, the popular (or default) meme is to throw ANYONE who contemns the left stuff into this little fixed box of only doing do as 'a weak justification for their terrible opinions' (to use your words). So yeah, how the hell can a serious meaningful conversation ever take place if that is the fixed narrative?
    Er, I said racists use it to justify their terrible opinions, unless you're claiming that everyone anti-left is a racist? I honestly think you're caring too much about being labeled a racist on the Internet instead of just saying why you think a YouTube video of an SJW is worthy of a serious discussion.

  10. #8995
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    In a legal sense there are some generally reasonable restrictions. In a social sense the restrictions are much tighter and having nuanced discussions on this stuff is hard enough without having to wade through very serious character accusations. So people (particularly public figures) don't risk it and we don't get the free and open discussion we need to really solve these complex multi faceted problems.
    Public figures don't want to risk looking like a racist, which is why Donald Trump is the Republican nominee for president of the United States of America.

  11. #8996
    The Tiger King smalishah84's Avatar
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    one of hillary's better appearances on TV

    And smalishah's avatar is the most classy one by far Jan certainly echoes the sentiments of CW

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  12. #8997
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    I'm sure his supporters have nuanced, well thought-out opinions though.

  13. #8998
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossTaylorsBox View Post
    Er, I said racists use it to justify their terrible opinions, unless you're claiming that everyone anti-left is a racist? I honestly think you're caring too much about being labeled a racist on the Internet instead of just saying why you think a YouTube video of an SJW is worthy of a serious discussion.
    It's not me claiming that.....I'm the one arguing against that overly simplistic drivel that seems to be the knee-jerk default position from so many these days.

    I don't know why you're so hung up on those SJW clips that were posted either. They're merely examples of atrocious irrational conduct that we should be able to condemn & take the piss out of in a US political discussion forum as actually being unhelpful and counter-productive to any real progress being made. Same with any examples of *** ass behaviours on the right. The only reason much was made of them is folks were trying to imply it was somehow bad taste & seemed hell-bent on making it a competition of which one is worse rather than just calling all the extreme nonsense out as being unhelpful and worthy of ridicule.
    Last edited by Zinzan; 24-09-2016 at 10:37 PM.

  14. #8999
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalishah84 View Post
    one of hillary's better appearances on TV
    She did almost come across semi-human in this.

  15. #9000
    I can't believe I ate the whole thing NZTailender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzan View Post
    I do find it hard to turn a blind eye to rioters smashing up cars and everything in their sights whilst chanting "pigs in a blanket' and 'fry 'em like bacon" only to then find the leaders of their movement not publicly condemning these behaviours. I don't think that is good for anyone.

    Quiet peaceful protest and the right to a voice one's opinion is the essence of free-speech. Turning up and quashing the free-speech of others in a violent fashion and effectively destroying another groups platform to do so, is both anti-American & anti-free speech i.e. like the speech of republican/conservative meetings in many US colleges.

    As I've said a few times, we should all be able to call-out disgusting behaviour from the both the extreme left and the extreme right without being labelled as racist, Islamophobic and all the other popular labels used to shut any real discussion on this topic.

    Ausage makes some excellent points above.
    Being polite is an easy way to go about being ignored. America was founded on destroying private property anyway. I mean they sure seemed to be doing well gaining independence from the UK by asking nicely. That doesn't excuse rioting and destroying other peoples property but the major rhetoric from the right and even moderate left is "why don't you protest the way we like it so we can get about to this whole equality thing on our schedule and not yours." Of course that never really eventuates because it's easily ignored, or you get called unpatriotic and criticised.
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