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Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #8371
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    Debate-chat: pretty illuminating article if accurate. Trump sounds like he's still in high school.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/30/us...bate.html?_r=0

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    Smart politics, for mine. Insiders 'leak' enough details to make the debate itself completely predictable, full of rants and personal attacks so that neither base is disturbed. And we all know who has the bigger base...

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    Here is the Debate schedule....

    2016 Presidential Debate Schedule ? 2016 Election Central

    The first debate will be on Monday, 26th September - New York.

    Hopefully, both Clinton and Trump will get under eachothers skin and make it more interesting than the usual contrived love-in.
    Last edited by watson; 30-08-2016 at 04:03 AM.


  5. #8375
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    Has anyone seen the film Weiner? Its very good and recommended. Trump has a genuinely funny cameo in it.

    The debates should be won by Clinton quite easily assuming we have no more juicy leaks and she is successful in avoiding Trump's baiting and turning it into an in-depth policy debate.

    I think Sanders would have been a better opponent for Trump, prone to rambling and easy to wind up.

  6. #8376
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    Question,,,,

    You are Trump do you want Gary Johnson in the debate?

  7. #8377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall View Post
    Has anyone seen the film Weiner? Its very good and recommended. Trump has a genuinely funny cameo in it.

    The debates should be won by Clinton quite easily assuming we have no more juicy leaks and she is successful in avoiding Trump's baiting and turning it into an in-depth policy debate.

    I think Sanders would have been a better opponent for Trump, prone to rambling and easy to wind up.
    Sanders did pretty well in the debates vs Clinton tbf.
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  8. #8378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall View Post
    Question,,,,

    You are Trump do you want Gary Johnson in the debate?
    It's an interesting question. Usually the last thing a Republican would want would be increasing exposure to the Libertarian Party, but Johnson specifically is actually really bad at pitching to the right (taking more votes from Hillary at the moment according to polling), and Trump does need to change the game a bit.

    A legitimate three-way contest could help Trump in two ways -- firstly by lowering the bar for a winning base and making it possible for him to get over the line based almost entirely on old white racists, and secondly by opening up the possibility of nobody actually winning and Paul Ryan handing him the keys after that. It could obviously backfire a bit, but Trump needs a game-changer and that could be it. He probably firmly believes he will destroy Hillary in the debates and doesn't need any of that though.
    Last edited by Prince EWS; 30-08-2016 at 05:38 AM.
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  9. #8379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall View Post
    Question,,,,

    You are Trump do you want Gary Johnson in the debate?
    In a two horse race Clinton currently has a 5 point lead over Trump according the RCP Poll Average. Add Gary Johnson and the lead shrinks to 4.3.

    Since Johnson seems to be taking votes from the Democrats then it seems a good idea to make Johnson more high profile and draft him into the debates.

    However, the downside is that Johnson's intelligence will make Trump look even more of a twit, thus losing votes.

    So as a guess, I'd say that the safer option for the Trump camp would be to block Johnson from the debates if possible.
    Last edited by watson; 30-08-2016 at 05:44 AM.
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  10. #8380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    It's an interesting question. Usually the last thing a Republican would want would be increasing exposure to the Libertarian Party, but Johnson specifically is actually really bad at pitching to the right (taking more votes from Hillary at the moment according to polling), and Trump does need to change the game a bit.

    A legitimate three-way contest could help Trump in two ways -- firstly by lowering the bar for a winning base and making it possible for him to get over the line based almost entirely on old white racists, and secondly by opening up the possibility of nobody actually winning and Paul Ryan handing him the keys after that. It could obviously backfire a bit, but Trump needs a game-changer and that could be it. He probably firmly believes he will destroy Hillary in the debates and doesn't need any of that though.

    Is that due to his social beliefs been pretty liberal and those are what people focus on (superficial I know) rather than his economic policies?

    I know Romney was stating he had a serious issue with his beliefs about weed which was delaying him endorsing him.

    Have you any link that Hilary is losing more support to Johnson than Trump, not suggesting you are lying just want to read about it

  11. #8381
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    Johnson specifically is actually really bad at pitching to the right (taking more votes from Hillary at the moment according to polling)
    That just gives you a clue about what the american right actually is.
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  12. #8382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall View Post
    Is that due to his social beliefs been pretty liberal and those are what people focus on (superficial I know) rather than his economic policies?

    I know Romney was stating he had a serious issue with his beliefs about weed which was delaying him endorsing him.

    Have you any link that Hilary is losing more support to Johnson than Trump, not suggesting you are lying just want to read about it
    Quote Originally Posted by Howe_zat View Post
    That just gives you a clue about what the american right actually is.
    There's something to all of this but it's mostly just Johnson being Johnson. He's much more focused on and comfortable talking about liberty issues usually associated with the left than the right, and when he makes diversions from libertarian orthodoxy (something obviously required when running for President, don't get me wrong) they tend to always be to the left.

    Every moderate libertarian is going to lean slightly one way or the other, but he shoots himself in the foot with his pitch sometimes. There are heaps of #NeverTrump conservatives to pitch to this election, and yet when he's managed to get on Fox News and Glenn Beck and asked softball questions to give an overall pitch, he's talked mostly about relaxing immigration controls and drug law reform straight away. I'd agree with him that those are more important libertarian issues than tinkering with the tax rates, but you have to play to your audience and he's just really bad at that. The whole "religious liberty is a black hole" cake-baking fiasco really hurt him with a lot of people on the right looking into him as well.

    There's a way to sell himself in leftspeak and there's a way to sell himself in rightspeak, and he's just not very good at the latter even when that's very obviously his audience.
    Last edited by Prince EWS; 30-08-2016 at 06:22 AM.
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  13. #8383
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    Niall, google gives me this immediately:
    https://libertarianvindicator.com/20...ton-not-trump/

    But I've been seeing articles and polls to that effect for a few weeks. The next time i see a good one I'll post it up here for you.
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  14. #8384
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    I would kind of expect Johnson to take more votes from Clinton than Trump at this stage. Your median redditor, as an example, goes Sanders>Johnson>Clinton>Trump, and is stubborn enough not to go with the lesser of two evils. His Republican target demographic is probably larger, but also more likely to vote tactically.

    The flipside is that he might bring a lot of people to the polls that vote Dem down-ballot.

  15. #8385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Your median redditor, as an example, goes Sanders>Johnson>Clinton>Trump, and is stubborn enough not to go with the lesser of two evils.
    Also ranty enough about SJWs to forget to get out of their basement on polling day



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