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Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #24661
    Hall of Fame Member harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenZA View Post
    I don't know how serious you are in this? I find it difficult to comprehend that somebody can not understand the extreme emotional and physical trauma associated with rape. It is by its very nature extreme violence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Wtf harsh. You know what rape is right?
    Well I wouldn't want a 16 year old to be tried as an adult for either rape or murder (one person part of their social circle). Don't know how that surprises you.
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  2. #24662
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Then just say you don't want 16 year olds tried as adult full stop. Here you're just suggesting an odd and thoroughly disturbing idea of what counts as "extreme".
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    citoyens, vouliez-vous une révolution sans révolution?

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    International Coach StephenZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    Well I wouldn't want a 16 year old to be tried as an adult for either rape or murder (one person part of their social circle). Don't know how that surprises you.
    Not really what you said.

    But I think their is two different things here. The ability to try somebody as an adult is really about their understanding of the crime committed. Thus why we separate juveniles from adults; but also people who are mentally ill etc. The changing of a juvenile to adult trial is normally done in more extreme (or violent) cases because of the nature of the crime but it is very much about the person having an understanding of what were the effects of that crime.

    The reasons that the original judge gave for not having him tried as an adult where pointless and irrelevant, on whether he understood the consequences of his actions. Once the trial actually begins people can argue guilt, and if needed mitigating circumstances during sentencing.

    The prosecutors felt he understood his actions enough that they feel he needs to be tried as an adult and possible take the consequences of one. If you feel that age is a natural barrier of not understanding consequences so be it, I don't, particularly for the crime committed in this case.

    Edit: Spark beat me to it in a more succinct manner.
    Last edited by StephenZA; 04-07-2019 at 04:30 AM.
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  4. #24664
    Hall of Fame Member harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    Then just say you don't want 16 year olds tried as adult full stop. Here you're just suggesting an odd and thoroughly disturbing idea of what counts as "extreme".
    Okay. Are you telling me you don't have a subjective opinion on this either, or that no reasonable subjective opinion on this exists or is possible to exist, or that it just shouldn't be discussed here.

    Many countries have subjective laws on when to try minors as adults so I don't know why it's particularly galling for me to say so.


  5. #24665
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    Okay. Are you telling me you don't have a subjective opinion on this either, or that no reasonable subjective opinion on this exists or is possible to exist, or that it just shouldn't be discussed here.

    Many countries have subjective laws on when to try minors as adults so I don't know why it's particularly galling for me to say so.
    Very much missing the point here.

    Your current argument comes across as "only try minors as adults for extreme stuff, not run-of-the-mill misdemeanours like rape". And, I mean, we know you don't actually think that, but it's almost exactly what you said, hence all the "wtf?" responses.

    The idea that minors should only be tried as adults in very, very, very rare circumstances is meh, no one finds it offensive. I don't really have a general opinion on when to try minors as adults, because it's so contingent on the nature of the overall criminal justice system.
    Last edited by Uppercut; 04-07-2019 at 06:45 AM.
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  6. #24666
    Hall of Fame Member harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Very much missing the point here.

    Your current argument comes across as "only try minors as adults for extreme stuff, not run-of-the-mill misdemeanours like rape". And, I mean, we know you don't actually think that, but it's almost exactly what you said, hence all the "wtf?" responses.
    Ah. Obviously didn't want it to come across that way.
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  7. #24667
    International Coach Anil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzan View Post
    Yeah, you also forgot the mainstream media like CNN, the NYTs and MSNBC to name a few, were so pro-trump, which would have helped him greatly.

    Especially CNN having one of their commentators hand Trump one of the debate questions in advance. Oh wait....
    if anything the mainstream media weren't anti-trump enough before the election and that actually contributed to your candidate's win...they tried to find a non-existent equivalence/balance between the two in an effort to appear unbiased and in doing so were clearly culpable in spreading a lot of the fake news...much of the mainstream media switched to being completely anti-trump after the election, unfortunately a little too late...

  8. #24668
    International Coach Anil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    CNN massively helped Trump by giving insane amounts of absolutely free media in comparison to the other candidates. An order of magnitude plus more.
    exactly...

  9. #24669
    International Coach Anil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    Ah. Obviously didn't want it to come across that way.
    do you agree with that juvenile in the delhi rape and murder case a few years back being tried as a juvenile at the time? the guy was reportedly the most brutal of everyone in the gang during the attack and was just a few months away from being classified as a legal adult at the time if i remember correctly...he is now a free man after spending a couple of years in prison...

  10. #24670
    Hall of Fame Member harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    do you agree with that juvenile in the delhi rape and murder case a few years back being tried as a juvenile at the time? the guy was reportedly the most brutal of everyone in the gang during the attack and was just a few months away from being classified as a legal adult at the time if i remember correctly...he is now a free man after spending a couple of years in prison...
    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    Well, I was thinking more of blowing up a bunch of people without due cause. In the case of rape, maybe if it was a particularly violent one with the victim being beaten to death afterwards.
    .
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  11. #24671
    International Coach Anil's Avatar
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    got it, disagree with your definition of what could be considered extreme but fair enough if that's what you believe...

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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Burgey's Avatar
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    Got to give due recognition is due to the US Army, which apparently successfully occupied the airports int eh War of 1812.
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    You need to clap a cows c**** over your head and get a woolly bull to f**** some sense into you.

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  13. #24673
    International Coach Anil's Avatar
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    context?

  14. #24674
    State 12th Man Grasshopper's Avatar
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    I've always thought it's a bit odd how much Americans venerate the Fourth of July - the day an elite group of rich white slave-owners declared that all men are created equal.

  15. #24675
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
    I've always thought it's a bit odd how much Americans venerate the Fourth of July - the day an elite group of rich white slave-owners declared that all men are created equal.
    It's (a) hypocritical in the extreme and (b) an example of the fact that hypocrisy is neither a fatal flaw nor uncorrectable if the substantial proposition put forward is a good one.



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