Cricket Betting Site Betway
Page 1538 of 1713 FirstFirst ... 538103814381488152815361537153815391540154815881638 ... LastLast
Results 23,056 to 23,070 of 25681
Like Tree9883Likes

Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #23056
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    A Blood Rainbow
    Posts
    54,322
    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    why do you say that? it was maybe not justice exactly, more of a brutal reprisal...but i believe they did pay a heavy price for their cruelty during the war...
    they really really didn't
    hendrix likes this.

  2. #23057
    International Coach Anil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Tattooine
    Posts
    13,454
    Would you mind explaining why you don’t think so?

  3. #23058
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    A Blood Rainbow
    Posts
    54,322
    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    Would you mind explaining why you don’t think so?
    very simple: wartime strategic bombings by another name are not in any way "justice" for the millions slaughtered in china, korea, vietnam, burma etc etc

    compared to the destruction and punishment (in terms of territorial losses) meted out to germany, or to the other countries in the region, it's pretty clear japan got off lightly.
    citoyens, vouliez-vous une révolution sans révolution?

  4. #23059
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    39,951
    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    why do you say that? it was maybe not justice exactly, more of a brutal reprisal...but i believe they did pay a heavy price for their cruelty during the war...
    They absolutely did not. They essentially got away with nothing. Look up the estimate of the damage (in human lives, let alone all the rape and torturethat was perpetrated by the Japanese during the war. They, as a society, never really confronted and came to terms with those actions in the same way the Germans had to.
    Last edited by silentstriker; 22-12-2018 at 06:50 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFu_Kallis View Post
    Peter Siddle top scores in both innings....... Matthew Wade gets out twice in one ball
    "The future light cone of the next Indian fast bowler is exactly the same as the past light cone of the previous one"
    -My beliefs summarized in words much more eloquent than I could come up with

    How the Universe came from nothing


  5. #23060
    Cricketer Of The Year Ausage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    I'll show ye!!
    Posts
    8,675
    Look up Unit 731 and the "consequences" they suffered if you feel like making yourself sick.
    OverratedSanity and Flem274* like this.
    Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.

    Too many bones, not enough CASH!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEHMbJ_FVfA
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5oGJTUpbpA

    RIP Craig

  6. #23061
    Not Terrible Athlai's Avatar
    Duck Hunt Champion! Plops Champion!
    Tournaments Won: 2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    #BlamePhlegm
    Posts
    42,651
    Yeah the lack of an actual campaign into the Japanese main islands left the infrastructure relatively intact compared to Germany. America also almost immediately pivoted into restarting Japan and using their expertise against the red menace. Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the fire bombings of Tokyo were all horrific but nowhere the total devastation that occured in Germany.

    The German populace also kind of had their noses shoved into their atrocities by the Soviet/French/UK/Yanks while their recovery was being administered. That didnt really occur in Japan. Massive blind eyes were turned towards their own atrocities. Just look at Hirohito.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    420 BLAZE IT
    [Zorax on Burgey]
    Quote Originally Posted by zorax View Post
    Wish I could articulate myself all over your face tbh
    And they say romance is dead.

  7. #23062
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    A Blood Rainbow
    Posts
    54,322
    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    Look up Unit 731 and the "consequences" they suffered if you feel like making yourself sick.
    Even in the places where they took a light touch, like my family's neck of the woods, there are plenty of stomach-clenching stories from around the area...

    EDIT: Although with a lot of help from the French in the area, it must be said
    Last edited by Spark; 22-12-2018 at 07:57 PM.

  8. #23063
    International Coach Anil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Tattooine
    Posts
    13,454
    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    very simple: wartime strategic bombings by another name are not in any way "justice" for the millions slaughtered in china, korea, vietnam, burma etc etc

    compared to the destruction and punishment (in terms of territorial losses) meted out to germany, or to the other countries in the region, it's pretty clear japan got off lightly.
    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    They absolutely did not. They essentially got away with nothing. Look up the estimate of the damage (in human lives, let alone all the rape and torturethat was perpetrated by the Japanese during the war. They, as a society, never really confronted and came to terms with those actions in the same way the Germans had to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    Look up Unit 731 and the "consequences" they suffered if you feel like making yourself sick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athlai View Post
    Yeah the lack of an actual campaign into the Japanese main islands left the infrastructure relatively intact compared to Germany. America also almost immediately pivoted into restarting Japan and using their expertise against the red menace. Hiroshima, Nagasaki and the fire bombings of Tokyo were all horrific but nowhere the total devastation that occured in Germany.

    The German populace also kind of had their noses shoved into their atrocities by the Soviet/French/UK/Yanks while their recovery was being administered. That didnt really occur in Japan. Massive blind eyes were turned towards their own atrocities. Just look at Hirohito.
    thanks for the details guys! i had read some of the stories about their atrocities but never really delved into such details...it is pretty horrifying...

  9. #23064
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    A Blood Rainbow
    Posts
    54,322
    incidentally this entire exchange is why i find a lot of modern hiroshima/nagasaki public discourse rather nauseating. it is extraordinary to me the extent to which japan has managed to portray itself in the minds of many as a victim.

  10. #23065
    Cricketer Of The Year Ausage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    I'll show ye!!
    Posts
    8,675
    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    incidentally this entire exchange is why i find a lot of modern hiroshima/nagasaki public discourse rather nauseating. it is extraordinary to me the extent to which japan has managed to portray itself in the minds of many as a victim.
    The broader shock about the power of the weaponry used is a significant factor in this surely.

    I do find the "offensive language" objections from more nationalist Japanese at Chinese WW2 memorials particularly disgusting though.

  11. #23066
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    A Blood Rainbow
    Posts
    54,322
    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    The broader shock about the power of the weaponry used is a significant factor in this surely.
    My extremely cynical take is that a lot of it is revulsion from Americans at a weapon that they realised could be used on them for a change (by the Soviet Union).

    I do find the "offensive language" objections from more nationalist Japanese at Chinese WW2 memorials particularly disgusting though.
    Yeah, it's abhorrent.
    Magrat Garlick likes this.

  12. #23067
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Top_Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Marburg, Germany
    Posts
    27,072
    The Americans had something like five A-bombs of varying designs in the pipeline with several others in manufacturing. Their plan was to drop them basically every two days until Japan either surrendered or was leveled prior to an invasion from the north and the south which, even with a decimated population, was going to see hefty losses. They could have wrecked the joint but didn’t.

    Compare and contrast this with Germany who’s total wartime deaths almost doubled after VE Day as many Germans died in the same camps they’d been administering, forced mass migration of Germans from Czech, Poland, etc. killed something like half a million alone. People starved to death, many in US custody. Intellectual property was plundered removing any chance of a recovery on the backs of inventions, patents, competitive advantage, etc. Reparations were extracted. Barely scratching the surface here.

    The Japanese economy was flying roughly a decade after the war, Germany at the same time was just coming out of rationing. Germany was still paying some reparations in 2010, Japan’s history with even formal apologies is, to understate it a little, a little spotty. I’m not even terribly well-read on all this but I’m going to side with saying Japan got off relatively easy.

  13. #23068
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    A Blood Rainbow
    Posts
    54,322
    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    The Americans had something like five A-bombs of varying designs in the pipeline with several others in manufacturing. Their plan was to drop them basically every two days until Japan either surrendered or was leveled prior to an invasion from the north and the south which, even with a decimated population, was going to see hefty losses. They could have wrecked the joint but didn’t.

    Compare and contrast this with Germany who’s total wartime deaths almost doubled after VE Day as many Germans died in the same camps they’d been administering, forced mass migration of Germans from Czech, Poland, etc. killed something like half a million alone. People starved to death, many in US custody. Intellectual property was plundered removing any chance of a recovery on the backs of inventions, patents, competitive advantage, etc. Reparations were extracted. Barely scratching the surface here.

    The Japanese economy was flying roughly a decade after the war, Germany at the same time was just coming out of rationing. Germany was still paying some reparations in 2010, Japan’s history with even formal apologies is, to understate it a little, a little spotty. I’m not even terribly well-read on all this but I’m going to side with saying Japan got off relatively easy.
    Mostly accurate. According to Hull and Groves (via interlopers), the plan was to get a "rhythm" of once every few days, but towards November or so start using them in preparation for Olympic - and then, presumably, Coronet down the line.

    Thank **** that Olympic and Coronet never happened btw. That would have been a generational-level catastrophe for the US and Japan with very few parallels.

  14. #23069
    Not Terrible Athlai's Avatar
    Duck Hunt Champion! Plops Champion!
    Tournaments Won: 2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    #BlamePhlegm
    Posts
    42,651
    On a cultural level, I do think that Grave of the Fireflies is probably the most traumatic war movie there is. Very moving film about a couple kids caught up in the war, and more specifically the firebombing of Tokyo.
    OverratedSanity likes this.

  15. #23070
    Hall of Fame Member social's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    16,731
    Obviously it’s war but the Japanese were a particularly sadistic adversary e.g. a large number of Australian, American & Kiwi POWs were hospitalised offshore for considerable periods post release as allies feared that public would want war to recommence if they were witness to their condition

    What’s more, as an insular society, it was relatively easy for the powers that be to insulate the populace from the country’s role, behaviour and even the result of WW2

    Tough to argue that they got off easy though



Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. The British Politics Thread
    By cover drive man in forum News and Politics
    Replies: 15853
    Last Post: Today, 04:18 AM
  2. Media
    By SirBloody Idiot in forum Cricket Web Tennis
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 06-08-2011, 06:10 AM
  3. FAQ & Introduction Thread
    By Magrat Garlick in forum Cricket Web Tennis
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 20-06-2011, 11:06 AM
  4. Finally ! A Last Word Thread
    By SJS in forum Cricket Chat
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 01-01-2010, 07:42 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •