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Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #23041
    Evil Scotsman
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMH View Post
    Was going to reply the same but it was the same time wasn’t it
    We did a better job with Germany than we did with Japan.

    Japan were never confronted with or made to atone for their crimes in the same way Germany were.

  2. #23042
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    We did a better job with Germany than we did with Japan.

    Japan were never confronted with or made to atone for their crimes in the same way Germany were.
    i think hiroshima and nagasaki more than did that...

  3. #23043
    rather mad Norwegian Magrat Garlick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    We did a better job with Germany than we did with Japan.

    Japan were never confronted with or made to atone for their crimes in the same way Germany were.
    Hm. Let's just say that our generation would remember things differently if the young Federal Germans hadn't been quite so angry at their parents in the late 1960s.

    (although in Japan, nurturing a youth revolt would have produced an even greater culture shock than what they got.)
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    International Captain Niall's Avatar
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  5. #23045
    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    Hey Iím saying nothing

  6. #23046
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    I agree with you in theory. In theory communism works. In theory.

    In short, I think the idea of a third option is a mirage. The US has been trying (or at least talking about) the humanitarian, nation building path and has only sent the place backwards. This is a very different beast to post war Japan.
    Arenít they backing Saudi in Yemen?

  7. #23047
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    We did a better job with Germany than we did with Japan.

    Japan were never confronted with or made to atone for their crimes in the same way Germany were.
    I donít know about that tbh.

    A better job was done with Germany because half of it was allowed to prosper under communism for so long.

    Unfortunately it wasnít the ****s from Hamburg my wife has to deal with at work.

  8. #23048
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    grim

    yeah, one thing that frustrates me about the left is sometimes you just need heads on spikes.

    isil don't deserve to exist and to steal a burgeyism, sitting down to have a cup of tea and a chat won't do any good and nor should we bother. they don't deserve negotiation.

    the west has often been disgusting in the middle east but let's also not pretend that as real humans with real goals and desires, elements of the middle east have jumped on the ruin everything train with glee. assad, isil, saudi arabia etc all trailer trash.

    as a great man on telly once said - "heads. spikes. walls."
    Yeah these ISIL ****s need a mass extinction tbh. I thought that was kind of accepted by many people. Theyíre obviously extremists, but they arenít OUR extremists, so no one should really be engaging in an exchange of ideas with them.

    Unlike white supremacy extremists, who are worthy of a place at the table. Obviously.

  9. #23049
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    i think hiroshima and nagasaki more than did that...
    it really didn't

  10. #23050
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    grim

    yeah, one thing that frustrates me about the left is sometimes you just need heads on spikes.

    isil don't deserve to exist and to steal a burgeyism, sitting down to have a cup of tea and a chat won't do any good and nor should we bother. they don't deserve negotiation.

    the west has often been disgusting in the middle east but let's also not pretend that as real humans with real goals and desires, elements of the middle east have jumped on the ruin everything train with glee. assad, isil, saudi arabia etc all trailer trash.

    as a great man on telly once said - "heads. spikes. walls."
    I'd agree with you but with a niggling scepticism. Like it's often been noted that when a terrorist or guerrilla group launches an armed campaign and do some atrocity, people will frequently say "these guys are different, we can't and won't negotiate with them" and end up negotiating with them. I was in a lecture by an academic who was an expert in Northern Ireland, particularly an expert on republicanism, the IRA etc. I think he noted that some British people were saying stuff like the quote above and the British ended up negotiating and the Good Friday Agreement eventually resulted. The lecturer was keen on the idea and even said he expected that people would be negotiating with ISIS. That said, the groups who people end up negotiating with usually have some sort of support which gives them a militarily viable situation to negotiate from. Compare this to ISIS who have pissed off probably all five permanent UN Security Council members and whose destruction was one of the few thing the majority of countries could agree on regarding Syria and Iraq. As long as the concerns of the Sunni communities of Syria and Iraq are addressed after the defeat of ISIS in conventional military terms, their non-negotiated defeat would seem probable, but still, I do have that niggling doubt.
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  11. #23051
    I can't believe I ate the whole thing NZTailender's Avatar
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    West Germany was rebuilt well partly because there were Communists next door. They were treated better than their Allies WRT rebuilding.
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  12. #23052
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZTailender View Post
    West Germany was rebuilt well partly because there were Communists next door. They were treated better than their Allies WRT rebuilding.
    And then the East Germans got in on the act themselves and built a whole new wall.

    Was a win-win for everyone.

  13. #23053
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    South Korea is probably the most recent actual example.

    Or, if we're being both lenient and very precise, you could make an outside case for Vietnam, weirdly

  14. #23054
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    it really didn't
    why do you say that? it was maybe not justice exactly, more of a brutal reprisal...but i believe they did pay a heavy price for their cruelty during the war...

  15. #23055
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Burgey's Avatar
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    The Japanese govt only officially apologised to Australia for its treatment of POWs some time in the 2000s iirc. Might have been treated differently because America directly administered them post-war.
    Last edited by Burgey; 22-12-2018 at 12:23 AM.



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