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Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #23026
    International Debutant GoodAreasShane's Avatar
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    The place will still be a complete and utter cluster**** with or without US troops on ground, so why not cut your losses and get out of there?
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    glad to not have found out the real name of GoodAreasShane, as it allows me to keep imagining that at club cricket his mates shout "good areas, GoodAreasShane"

  2. #23027
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    I don't know how much you will see that, on the whole.
    Most of what I've seen has been focused on the very obviously wrong claim that ISIS has been defeated/destroyed in the area. Really feels like we're just going to play the same game again in a few years when they inevitably return in force.

  3. #23028
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoodAreasShane View Post
    The place will still be a complete and utter cluster**** with or without US troops on ground, so why not cut your losses and get out of there?
    I don't think you could characterise OIR as a failure though. The immediate justification at the time, as hendrix alludes to, was that there was the very obvious early stages of a genocide being perpetrated against the Kurds and Yazidis in the area. But that threat is gone now.

  4. #23029
    I can't believe I ate the whole thing NZTailender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    Even if we take it as read that that's the thrust of most of the criticism (I think it's more "MUH Russia" and "Orange man bad" myself), the last 20 years (at least) has been a conga line of US disaster in the region. Why would an ongoing presence in Syria be any different?
    I'm not saying an ongoing presence will be different; I think it's the general sentiment of "don't **** these places up in the first place, and if you **** it up, fix it up"

    I mean, I'm in no way supporting American intervention in the Middle East or blowing **** up. The US involvement in anything in the Middle East has been basically a mix of "opposing those backed by the USSR" and "protecting our financial interests", rather than any genuine attempt to protect #freedom or help the oppressed. Before they meddled in the region it was the British and the French. The Dichotomy is 'pull out of the ME and let whatever happens happen" or 'keep ****ing up the ME', like there isn't a third option.

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  5. #23030
    Hall of Fame Member social's Avatar
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    If US wants to leave then so be it but let’s not pretend that Assad isn’t a ****, ISIS has been beaten or that the Kurds aren’t in massive danger

    This is simply a case of Trump trying to deflect attention from all of his problems

  6. #23031
    Cricketer Of The Year Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZTailender View Post
    I mean, I'm in no way supporting American intervention in the Middle East or blowing **** up. The US involvement in anything in the Middle East has been basically a mix of "opposing those backed by the USSR" and "protecting our financial interests", rather than any genuine attempt to protect #freedom or help the oppressed. Before they meddled in the region it was the British and the French. The Dichotomy is 'pull out of the ME and let whatever happens happen" or 'keep ****ing up the ME', like there isn't a third option.
    I agree with you in theory. In theory communism works. In theory.

    In short, I think the idea of a third option is a mirage. The US has been trying (or at least talking about) the humanitarian, nation building path and has only sent the place backwards. This is a very different beast to post war Japan.
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  7. #23032
    123/5 Flem274*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    One wonders what the tens of thousands of Iranian militia will do now.
    grim
    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    Most of what I've seen has been focused on the very obviously wrong claim that ISIS has been defeated/destroyed in the area. Really feels like we're just going to play the same game again in a few years when they inevitably return in force.
    yeah, one thing that frustrates me about the left is sometimes you just need heads on spikes.

    isil don't deserve to exist and to steal a burgeyism, sitting down to have a cup of tea and a chat won't do any good and nor should we bother. they don't deserve negotiation.

    the west has often been disgusting in the middle east but let's also not pretend that as real humans with real goals and desires, elements of the middle east have jumped on the ruin everything train with glee. assad, isil, saudi arabia etc all trailer trash.

    as a great man on telly once said - "heads. spikes. walls."
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  8. #23033
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    Yeah I'd say it died when it turned out the chosen one was a warmonger.
    Huh. The SJWs are fervently anti-war, and you keep insisting they're a major political force which we should all be very worried about.
    Niall likes this.

  9. #23034
    International Captain Niall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Huh. The SJWs are fervently anti-war, and you keep insisting they're a major political force which we should all be very worried about.
    I think Ausage has been spot on quite a lot recently, but definitely agree with this.

    The opposition to this ignoring the right, would be from the centre left who pretty much dominate the media and obviously the resistance grifters whose income is based on bashing Trump no matter what he does.

    I have seen plenty of cautious support from the type of left who love Bernie, and loath the type of centrism that the establishment left has embraced for so long.

  10. #23035
    International Captain Niall's Avatar
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    Heck I could be wrong here, but isn't the likes of Beto and Biden disliked by the left in America, but those two are much more likely to be president than a far left darling like Tulsi Gabbard.

  11. #23036
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall View Post
    Heck I could be wrong here, but isn't the likes of Beto and Biden disliked by the left in America, but those two are much more likely to be president than a far left darling like Tulsi Gabbard.
    Tulsi Gabbard can go jump off a bridge

  12. #23037
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZTailender View Post
    Agree to some extent. When was the last time they properly rebuilt a country? Japan?
    (West) Germany IMO.

  13. #23038
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    How much rebuilding have Kosovo and Bosnia-Herzegovina seen? Sierra Leone is definitely out; there wasn't really anything to rebuild in the first place.
    citoyens, vouliez-vous une révolution sans révolution?

  14. #23039
    rather mad Norwegian Magrat Garlick's Avatar
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    From what I know from football fan friends who have travelled in the Balkans, both those places are occasionally in weird limbos reminiscent of Cyprus, but some cities are being rebuilt.

    There are a lot of Raifeissen trucks in Kosovo and Albania, which suggests that Germany has taken responsibility for that.
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  15. #23040
    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furball View Post
    (West) Germany IMO.
    Was going to reply the same but it was the same time wasn’t it



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