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Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #19951
    International Regular Stapel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    If anything it's worse than that IMO, it's pretty obvious since that most of these people don't believe this garbage, and are only saying it for entirely cynical reasons, to whip up their base into a frenzy. But corner them on it later, and they'll admit they knew they were spewing tripe.
    There is something that really keeps me puzzling.

    Even when I try to understand the ideas of far-right, alt-right populism known as Trumpism, and even when I try to see why the Tump government sends like-minded idiots to all kinds of posts, I cannot see why.....
    This guy is now an ambassador. As a diplomat, completely independent of political inclination, it is one's job to get things done. Lobbying for American buinesses or helping countrymen in some kind of trouble are just two examples. This guy won't succed at anything!
    Madness. Exhilarating. Magical. Netherlands have crossed the line in an unbelievable 13.5 overs.
    It's like watching a Gayle from each end. And when one Gayle gets out.. Another Gayle comes in...

  2. #19952
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    If anything it's worse than that IMO, it's pretty obvious since that most of these people don't believe this garbage, and are only saying it for entirely cynical reasons, to whip up their base into a frenzy. But corner them on it later, and they'll admit they knew they were spewing tripe.
    I think some people see unashamedly lying while looking someone in the eye as a show of strength. Or a show of disrespect, which plays well when it's directed towards the hated media.
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  3. #19953
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  4. #19954
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    Not racist at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
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  5. #19955
    International Captain StephenZA's Avatar
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    SA point of view of the latest Trump comments...
    trump-wins-the-race-to-the-bottom

    But, Donald, there is one thing my tribe has excelled at over the centuries. No, wait, that’s falsely modest. We’ve been brilliant at it. I’m talking a kind of genius here, and not just the stable kind.

    And that one thing is racism.

    Donald, my people are racist savants. As a white South African man, I am the inheritor of a tradition of racism so blisteringly hateful and so deeply ingrained and toweringly self-righteous, that it makes your chino-wearing, tiki-torch-waving, white-bread white supremacists look like the bedwetting snowflakes they are.

    I know I’m pulling rank here, Donald, but you need to understand that I know what I’m talking about. It was my tribe that decided whether people were black or not by sticking a pencil through their hair and seeing if it stuck or fell out. We’re scientists, Donald.

    What I’m trying to say is that in the rarefied world of untransformed and unrepentant racists, my tribe walks shoulder to shoulder with the best of the worst, whether they be Russians sniffing out Jewish tendencies, Indians obsessing over caste, or Chinese gaping at black people.

    All of which makes me particularly qualified to tell you something important.

    You are the real deal, Donald.

    You’re a gold-star racist.

    You are an uber-cracker, a genetic miracle bringing together the entitled ignorance of a modern billionaire with the owl-killing, witch-burning superstition of a medieval hovel-dweller. Your racism is ancient and powerful.
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  6. #19956
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  7. #19957
    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    If Trump said what he’s accused of (I believe he did, although I think he’s denied it) then that is indeed very poor. What’s amazing though is how the world is up in arms about him using a bad word but approximately four people gave a **** when an eight year old girl was killed with his approval in his first week in office.

    The world has its priorities messed up. As long as you say nice things like Obama did then you can kill whoever you want.

    If only Hillary had got in hey. She’d have as a minimum followed the same foreign policy path as Trump but she definitely wouldn’t have called anywhere a shithole.

    Go **** yourself world. Worry about the deaths in the Middle East and Africa at the hands of the US governments of Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump (and those who came before them). Get up in arms about that maybe? Okay everyone used to when Bush was in office. It went out with him. Say the right things and you can do what you want. Because that’s modern culture where words are violence and violence is subjective.
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  8. #19958
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Spikey's Avatar
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    man wait until the day GIMH discovers leftist critiques of obama
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    Will say this once and then nothing else. Defamation laws quite clear in Aus.be careful.

  9. #19959
    International Captain StephenZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMH View Post
    Go **** yourself world. Worry about the deaths in the Middle East and Africa at the hands of the US governments of Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump (and those who came before them). Get up in arms about that maybe? Okay everyone used to when Bush was in office. It went out with him. Say the right things and you can do what you want. Because that’s modern culture where words are violence and violence is subjective.
    Nobody ever stopped complaining about the American strategy in the Middle East under any of those presidents.....
    But none of those presidents referred to a Aircraft from a Call of Duty game plane as real; or told the world that they have a bigger 'button' than everybody else.... I'm complaining that he is a chauvinistic racist stupid intolerant **** that should be nowhere near the white house, whatever his policies.
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  10. #19960
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMH View Post
    If Trump said what he’s accused of (I believe he did, although I think he’s denied it) then that is indeed very poor. What’s amazing though is how the world is up in arms about him using a bad word but approximately four people gave a **** when an eight year old girl was killed with his approval in his first week in office.

    The world has its priorities messed up. As long as you say nice things like Obama did then you can kill whoever you want.

    If only Hillary had got in hey. She’d have as a minimum followed the same foreign policy path as Trump but she definitely wouldn’t have called anywhere a shithole.

    Go **** yourself world. Worry about the deaths in the Middle East and Africa at the hands of the US governments of Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump (and those who came before them). Get up in arms about that maybe? Okay everyone used to when Bush was in office. It went out with him. Say the right things and you can do what you want. Because that’s modern culture where words are violence and violence is subjective.

    Undoubtedly true and a lot of it has to do with identity politics. When you put a black man in office because you think it helps your progressive vision of the world then anyone that criticises him is a an outward/covert racist. The left in the last couple decades have been more concerned with looking like they've had the right stance than actually having the right stance.

    But I'd also say a lot of people who voted for Obama ended up voting for Trump specifically because of this. There just isn't any mainstream attention which allowed Obama to have a more pristine public image.

    As for Trump, I believe he said it although it's not from any reliable source as far as I've seen. As a person who has to be diplomatic in many respects it's a poor thing to get out. On the other hand, it's very true and it ends up making him look better in many peoples' eyes as he is more concerned with America than making foreigners happy.
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  11. #19961
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone disputes that some countries suck, it's the implication that the people from said countries are less worthy which is dire (because this is in the context of immigration reform). Particularly when the US is the reason these particular countries are often shitholes (Haiti's history in particular is one that smacks strongly of "gotta keep down those uppity blacks", because the sheer malice the various great powers have had to such a small, powerless country over the years has been extraordinary).

    It's also extremely grim to pin this on identity politics, when it's Trump is literally judging people purely based on their identity. Not anyone else. But whatever, apparently taking any sort of moral stand on anything these days is virtue signalling identity politics.

    Last edited by Spark; 13-01-2018 at 03:06 AM.
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  12. #19962
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    I didn't want to post about this **** in this thread because I knew this was exactly the sort of response that would result. "What about... it's all progressive identity politics! Suck **** libs!"

  13. #19963
    Global Moderator harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    apparently taking any sort of moral stand on anything these days is virtue signalling identity politics.
    Everything comes down to this, basically.

    Say anything wrt what you find to be morally wrong and you seem to be marred by various combinations of "hypocrite/learn-facts/virtue-signalling/identity-police"

    This is a President who deals in stereotypes at the expense of human dignity. It's not smart. It's not telling the truth. It's not about facts. It's not standing up for Americans.

    It's the laziness of an intellectual weakling without a centered moral code.
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  14. #19964
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    I mean, GIMH raises a fair point, but also a complete non sequitur. Writing off broad swathes of the world as irredeemable shitholes like Africa and the Middle East (and hence full of **** people) as opposed to places which are full of people who are enormously contributive in the right environment (and, hence, highly productive immigrants) is the sort of thing that leads you to bomb them with gleeful abandon, because those people don't really matter anyway.

    This is a pattern repeated throughout the history of imperialism (even though the US is a very, very soft form of that). The English could only justify what they were doing to the India on the basis that Indians were somehow lesser humans who were fundamentally less capable than, well, white Englishmen, and therefore could be treated as semi-expendable. Same with the French and the Vietnamese, the Japanese and all their neighbours, the Spanish and, well, everyone.
    Last edited by Spark; 13-01-2018 at 03:26 AM.

  15. #19965
    International Coach Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    I don't think anyone disputes that some countries suck, it's the implication that the people from said countries are less worthy which is dire (because this is in the context of immigration reform). Particularly when the US is the reason these particular countries are often shitholes (Haiti's history in particular is one that smacks strongly of "gotta keep down those uppity blacks", because the sheer malice the various great powers have had to such a small, powerless country over the years has been extraordinary).

    It's also extremely grim to pin this on identity politics, when it's Trump is literally judging people purely based on their identity. Not anyone else. But whatever, apparently taking any sort of moral stand on anything these days is virtue signalling identity politics.
    Someone's country isn't their identity. Their culture is a different thing although no culture is immune from criticism as impolite as it would be to criticise on that basis. Saying a country is a shithole is not a statement on their identity. I'm Iranian but Iran is a shithole and I know many Africans who similarly feel the same about their countries. There is a reason people from these countries want to go to America or places like Australia and it's because their countries tend to be shitholes. People generally don't leave their countries if they don't have to.

    It shouldn't need explaining why allowing people from certain countries and not from others is relevant, and yes immigration programs are entirely about who is worthy as unpalatable as it may be to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    I didn't want to post about this **** in this thread because I knew this was exactly the sort of response that would result. "What about... it's all progressive identity politics! Suck **** libs!"
    The point about identity politics has to do with the fact that the same or similar policies were enacted and people didn't bat an eyelid. Trump's gaffe (if it is indeed even true) is that it looks bad diplomatically. It's not wrong policy-wise nor is it morally wrong. Ironically, the discussion wasn't about virtue signalling but it has actually descended into virtue signalling with the distinctions made in the last few posts.
    Last edited by Ikki; 13-01-2018 at 03:50 AM.



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