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Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #18091
    vcs
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMH View Post
    Getting fired for it is not a violation of freedom of speech.
    Yeah, but conservatives generally misuse it to complain when they face real-life repercussions for saying racist/sexist/homophobic stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by benchmark00 View Post
    Chix love a man with a checkered posting history.

  2. #18092
    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs View Post
    He isn't going to prison, he's being fired. I've no problem with it.

    More interested in the thoughts of those who complained about the likes of Milo Yiannokopoulos's fall from grace, complaining about political correctness and sensitive snowflakes, blah blah.
    I edited tbf.

    People rioted to stop Milo from speaking on college campuses. Same has happened to Ben Shapiro. It wasn't state sponsored to my knowledge so again I wouldn't say it was freedom of speech related but it is evidence of an inability to countenance ideas that contradict your own. Milo was a provocateur who said a lot of silly things and as I said at the time of his under aged *** comments, defending him isn't a hill I'm going to die on. The Shapiro protests are ****ing outrageous though. Just because someone has a different opinion, ideologically, you'll riot to stop him? If you're defending that then there's an issue.

    But neither are truly freedom of speech examples, you've pulled a bit of a straw man out really.
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  3. #18093
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    Quote Originally Posted by vcs View Post
    Yeah, but conservatives generally misuse it to complain when they face real-life repercussions for saying racist/sexist/homophobic stuff.
    Do they really?

    I do come across comments from people now and again complaining about Facebook/twitter/YouTube violating their freedom of speech. And though I disagree with the way those sites are starting to censor, it's not a freedom of speech violation. I wouldn't say this is remotely specific to conservatives, and I'm not sure which conservatives make the argument you've just said they do. Milo's fall from grace wasn't greeted with outrage by 'free speech defenders' because it had nothing to do with it.

  4. #18094
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMH View Post
    I edited tbf.

    People rioted to stop Milo from speaking on college campuses. Same has happened to Ben Shapiro. It wasn't state sponsored to my knowledge so again I wouldn't say it was freedom of speech related but it is evidence of an inability to countenance ideas that contradict your own. Milo was a provocateur who said a lot of silly things and as I said at the time of his under aged *** comments, defending him isn't a hill I'm going to die on. The Shapiro protests are ****ing outrageous though. Just because someone has a different opinion, ideologically, you'll riot to stop him? If you're defending that then there's an issue.

    But neither are truly freedom of speech examples, you've pulled a bit of a straw man out really.
    Where did I defend rioting?

    I referred to people who complain about (usually famous) people losing their jobs over saying racist/sexist/homophobic stuff, usually bringing up "well, he's entitled to his opinion", the old "political correctness gone mad" etc. Surely those same people should be springing to this Prof.'s defense now.


  5. #18095
    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    Sorry, it was royal you, not you personally. Should have said 'they'

    Like I said, I'm not sure which people you're referring to. In the case of the professor, yes he's entitled to his opinion and so is his employer, hence his firing.

    I imagine you'll be able to find the odd link with people complaining in comments but it feels like a bit of a straw man.

    Bloke makes **** comment, gets fired, world keeps turning. If people wanna defend him or those over the other side of the aisle, go for it. I just don't think 'freedom of speech defenders' are the people you should be attacking here.
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  6. #18096
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    What a great crowd!

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    Here's a turn-up for the books. Perhaps Pelosi should have tried talking to Antifa first as they might be nice people deep down....

    Nancy Pelosi condemns antifa for first time as radical leftists wear out welcome
    Antifa blamed for violence at Berkeley protests


    It took a while, but Democrats may finally have had enough of the antifa.

    In a Tuesday statement, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi called out by name the antifa, or “anti-fascists,” for the first time since Sunday’s leftist violence in Berkeley.

    “Our democracy has no room for inciting violence or endangering the public, no matter the ideology of those who commit such acts,” the California Democrat said in a statement. “The violent actions of people calling themselves antifa in Berkeley this weekend deserve unequivocal condemnation, and the perpetrators should be arrested and prosecuted.”

    More than 100 antifa members, many wearing black clothing and masks, jumped police barriers Sunday at a Berkeley protest, chasing down and attacking a small number of Trump supporters, resulting in six injuries and 13 arrests....


    Nancy Pelosi finally condemns antifa for Berkeley violence - Washington Times
    However in contrast, the GOP has been relatively silent re The Black Shirts. I suppose that's because it's basically a party of complete morons.
    Last edited by watson; 30-08-2017 at 09:00 AM.

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    On a more positive note from the WSJ...

    President Trump visited Texas Tuesday to assess the damage from Hurricane Harvey and show concern for its victims. So far, his administration is largely getting praise for effective handling of the crisis. Washington’s disaster authorities appear to be in sync with the state on roles and responsibilities; the Federal Emergency Management Agency and its leader, Brock Long, deployed resources as Harvey approached; and the government response as a whole appears well coordinated.

    “I give FEMA a grade of A-plus, all the way from the president down,” Texas Gov. Greg Abbott told “Fox News Sunday.” Yes, Mr. Abbott is a fellow Republican, but he is also interested in protecting Texas and would not have said “A-plus” if the state weren’t getting what it needed. That assessment is backed up by Rear Adm. W. Craig Vanderwagen, a former career emergency manager who is plugged into the Harvey effort. “Early read,” he told me in an email, “is that Executive Branch is performing well under this President.”.....

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-...nse-1504045754
    Last edited by watson; 30-08-2017 at 09:08 AM.

  9. #18099
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    https://t.co/3KZmxJOTje

    A decorated veteran of the U.S. Marine Corps who served in the Persian Gulf War was transferred to an immigration detention facility in Eloy, Ariz., late last week, where he faces deportation to Mexico despite evidence that he is a United States citizen.

    In fact, a federal judge has already ruled that George Ybarra is a citizen. Even so, federal authorities have continued to work to deport him.

    A series of mistakes and crimes on Ybarra's part and a pattern of failures by U.S. officials have led a man to spend more than a decade in and out of the corrections system, with the veteran stranded once again in an immigration detention center. Ybarra has severe PTSD symptoms, drug problems and criminal convictions (including firing a rifle in the direction of police), but his family and attorney said he needs treatment, not banishment.
    What a fine organisation this is.
    citoyens, vouliez-vous une révolution sans révolution?

    those nights were on fire
    we couldn't get higher
    we didn't know that we had it all
    but no one warns you before the fall

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    The Arpaio stuff is interesting but moreso because of what it exposes - like many other instances since Trump got into power. One side wants to make it about race when they don't have enough to debate about and then the rule of law when it suits them. Jorge Ramos - and many like him - are so bereft of consistency, that in one breath they will talk about the legal process and at the same time defend illegal immigrants. This interview is instructive that even when a Mexican senator like Montenegro comes on and tries to keep to the facts, race is still brought up and because he is in defence of the conservative position, he is the equivalent of an uncle tom.

    It's not even about being PC or caring, it's just straight up manufacturing consent for future misrepresentations.
    ★★★★★

  11. #18101
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    I too think self-described concentration camps are a good example of small government.

    Ikki, do you think a libertarian society would have men like Arpaio in charge? Do you think the rule of law is important when it comes to things like...

    * Calling Tent City "chronically understaffed," Amnesty found that the facility was not an "adequate or humane alternative to housing inmates in suitable . . . jail facilities," and recommended that the county cease its operation.

    * Labeling chain gangs "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment," the report said that they "serve no legitimate penological purpose," and recommended that the county stop using them.

    * Citing the examples of countries and states that have banned the use of stun guns in jails, the report "urges . . . Maricopa County authorities . . . [to] cease issuing them to all detention officers."

    * Reviewing Richard Post's case as an example, Amnesty "urges the Maricopa County authorities to conduct an urgent review of the use of restraint chairs in the county jails with a view to restricting their use."

    * Disturbed by conditions in First Avenue Jail, where some juveniles are held in "lockdown" and kept in their cells for all but an hour per day, the report says that according to international standards, "it is not appropriate or humane to house children in solitary confinement."

    * The report specifically censures the treatment of female juveniles awaiting trial, who are being held under "deprived conditions" at First Avenue Jail, including no privacy from male guards.

    * Amnesty also recommends that because of serious concerns about the use of excessive force in the county's jails, the Sheriff's Office should review its policies about the use of force "to ensure that they conform to international standards."
    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/...lights-6422730

    Or is it more important to be non-PC and "trigger libs lol" than, say, actually prosecute child rape:

    According to a memo written by a Maricopa County sheriff's deputy assigned to a botched *** crime case now threatening to cost the county millions, fraud investigations took precedence over a 13 year-old girl's report of being raped by her uncle.

    The March 13, memo from MCSO detective G.J. Edgar to Sergeant P. Dougherty, identified as a supervisor of the Special Victims Unit, offers insight into how such a heinous crime, now the subject of a $30 million notice of claim to the county, was ignored for several years.

    This, because Edgar claims her workload and her supervisors dictated otherwise.

    The case is one of hundreds of *** crimes investigations that the MCSO has mishandled over the last few years, as resources were diverted to implement Sheriff Joe Arpaio's racial-profiling sweeps and to gin up criminal cases against the sheriff's political enemies.
    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/...gation-7287590

    Or does being against illegal immigration obviate the fact that, in fact, Arpaio did run an illegal racial profiling program in which people were targeted wholesale purely because they were Latino, without any evidence that said Latinos were illegal?

    Come on, man. If you don't want to come off as defending the indefensible then maybe spend less energy carrying water for it. This doesn't have anything to do with Trump or indeed about what you think levels of immigration should be (that's a separate debate); Arpaio has been one of the worst men in the country for a long time. Even NR hates him: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...sary-impulsive and http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...e-bad-decision

    Arpaio is a hero to the populist Right, but his theatrical, inhumane imprisonment policies, ham-fisted immigration enforcement, and all-around witless showmanship had become so toxic that he got soundly thrashed in his latest reelection bid in a Trump-friendly county. No one serious about immigration restriction should want Arpaio to be the poster boy for the cause, but that is clearly what Trump considers him, and his pardon makes the point rather emphatically. Better than dumping this pardon on a Friday night would have been never granting it at all.

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...e-bad-decision
    You can think that illegal immigration is bad, and legal migration should be reduced, without spending one second of time defending this ****.
    Last edited by Spark; 03-09-2017 at 02:39 AM.
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  12. #18102
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    Ikki: I demand an apology for your insinuating that I respond to every bad thing Trump does by talking some tangential bollocks about The Left.

    Ikki, next day: the real issue behind Trump pardoning a fascist concentration camp runner is the hypocrisy of The Left's immigration stance.

  13. #18103
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    I mean he called it a concentration camp, as if it was something to boast about. Who does that ffs.

  14. #18104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post


    The Arpaio stuff is interesting but moreso because of what it exposes - like many other instances since Trump got into power. One side wants to make it about race when they don't have enough to debate about and then the rule of law when it suits them. Jorge Ramos - and many like him - are so bereft of consistency, that in one breath they will talk about the legal process and at the same time defend illegal immigrants. This interview is instructive that even when a Mexican senator like Montenegro comes on and tries to keep to the facts, race is still brought up and because he is in defence of the conservative position, he is the equivalent of an uncle tom.

    It's not even about being PC or caring, it's just straight up manufacturing consent for future misrepresentations.
    Literally what the Arpaio stuff is about.

  15. #18105
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Noted left-wing PC liberals George HW Bush and Ronald Reagan on children of undocumented/illegal migrants

    https://twitter.com/ComfortablySmug/...07302857859074
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