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Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #17926
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Top_Cat's Avatar
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    Before we smash the cops too much for not shutting down any of the protests, it's worth bearing in mind that North Carolina Virginia is an open carry and shall issue state. There's a culture and balance at play that both sides need to and probably do respect. It's a place where the right to peaceably assemble is enshrined by the constitution and to do so with firearms open and at the ready is lawful. Noone got shot by anyone who was armed because then they'd get smashed by the government response so, even though the gun-nuts were being dicks, that they kept their cool gives them the moral high-ground in their minds. I'm guessing that's why the militia types turned up heavily armed, to send a message to the cops that they're outgunned but, by the same token, all they have is their guys on the ground. If **** down down, cops can call in bigger guns and quickly. They have a vested interest in playing nice with police, cops have a vested interest in not cracking down on people exercising their rights, the obvious bad actors who run down and murder people aside who, I'm sure, would be turned over to the police fairly quickly by the gun-nuts.

    In that environment, doesn't take much to imagine the outrage and possible very bloody reaction if agents of the state i.e. local cops tried to strong-arm these guys. I'd guess it would be very difficult to do whilst remaining within the boundaries of the law and then you have a wholly different proposition at the next protest.
    Last edited by Top_Cat; 16-08-2017 at 05:22 AM.
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  2. #17927
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenZA View Post
    No its not. Hate speech falls (loosely) under assault and intimidation laws. Just like you can`t stand in a pub, demeaning and shout at somebody just because you don`t like them, that would constituent a form of verbal abuse and assault.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.d1329f927205
    It's not a legal term though, and I think "loosely" isn't good enough given how rigorously and strictly First Amendment exceptions, such as they are, are defined.
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  3. #17928
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Cat View Post
    Before we smash the cops too much for not shutting down any of the protests, it's worth bearing in mind that North Carolina is an open carry and shall issue state. There's a culture and balance at play that both sides need to and probably do respect. It's a place where the right to peaceably assemble is enshrined by the constitution and to do so with firearms open and at the ready is lawful. Noone got shot by anyone who was armed because then they'd get smashed by the government response so, even though the gun-nuts were being dicks, that they kept their cool gives them the moral high-ground in their minds. They have a vested interest in playing nice with police, cops have a vested interest in not cracking down on people exercising their rights, the obvious bad actors who run down and murder people aside who, I'm sure, would be turned over to the police fairly quickly by the gun-nuts.

    In that environment, doesn't take much to imagine the outrage and possible very bloody reaction if agents of the state i.e. local cops tried to strong-arm these guys. I'd guess it would be very difficult to do whilst remaining within the boundaries of the law and then you have a wholly different proposition at the next protest.
    This happened in VA tho

  4. #17929
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    Oops, typo.


  5. #17930
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    It's not a legal term though, and I think "loosely" isn't good enough given how rigorously and strictly First Amendment exceptions, such as they are, are defined.
    Hate speech is not a legal term, but it is a loose description of how you are allowed to behave in public. As I stated earlier freedom of speech does not allow anybody to say anything they want in public. It is there to allow protests (particularly against the government), and protesting is not the same as verbal abuse and intimidation.
    Last edited by StephenZA; 16-08-2017 at 05:48 AM.
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  6. #17931
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    Pretty disturbing and depressing viewing, I could do with not seeing stuff like this. Not good for the system.

  7. #17932
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    Just something I'm wondering:

    What does Trump have to do to significantly lose support amongts Republicans? Or is that not going to happen?
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  8. #17933
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stapel View Post
    Just something I'm wondering:

    What does Trump have to do to significantly lose support amongts Republicans? Or is that not going to happen?
    Be (a) clearly incapable of helping significant legislation passed, (b) have GWB post-Katrina level approval numbers and (c) be in a position where the 2018 midterms are clearly not going to end well for the GOP.

  9. #17934
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    These people really need a history lesson.

  10. #17935
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    Trump just saying what many in this thread have been saying for ages, let's not look at White Supremacists too much, when we can just knock the left, as making a scathing you-tube vid about Bernie Sanders is the real way of attacking the evils of the day.

    He is your leader, even if you didn't vote for him, his views have become slowly more acceptable, same for voting for a Murdoch influenced Brexit and Tory party, because you hate the left. Allows Trevor Kavanagh to make editorials about The Muslim Problem. They've stopped dog-whistling now they're out there.
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  11. #17936
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    I mean, Trump said what apparently has been the standard take on conservative talk radio circles for the last few days. "Both sides!"

  12. #17937
    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grecian View Post
    Trump just saying what many in this thread have been saying for ages, let's not look at White Supremacists too much, when we can just knock the left, as making a scathing you-tube vid about Bernie Sanders is the real way of attacking the evils of the day.

    He is your leader, even if you didn't vote for him, his views have become slowly more acceptable, same for voting for a Murdoch influenced Brexit and Tory party, because you hate the left. Allows Trevor Kavanagh to make editorials about The Muslim Problem. They've stopped dog-whistling now they're out there.
    Who said don't look at white supremacists in this thread? Many?

    Almost as if when I shared a series of tweets condemning said white supremacists you threw a straw man at me to further your narrative.

    Grouping Brexit and the Tory party in with it is beyond parody. That's the ****ing danger isn't it. Tell everyone they're a Nazi, everyone who has views you don't like.

  13. #17938
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMH View Post
    Who said don't look at white supremacists in this thread? Many?

    Almost as if when I shared a series of tweets condemning said white supremacists you threw a straw man at me to further your narrative.

    Grouping Brexit and the Tory party in with it is beyond parody. That's the ****ing danger isn't it. Tell everyone they're a Nazi, everyone who has views you don't like.
    Haha if we're talking about strawmen then your final line is a massive one. Grecian drew a parallel between some views, which isn't saying they are equivalent in every way, and certainly didn't imply that everyone who has views you don't like is a Nazi.
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  14. #17939
    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Halsey View Post
    Haha if we're talking about strawmen then your final line is a massive one. Grecian drew a parallel between some views, which isn't saying they are equivalent in every way, and certainly didn't imply that everyone who has views you don't like is a Nazi.
    No, just that everyone who voted Tory and Brexit is responsible for racism towards Muslims. He stopped short of grouping everyone right of Tony Blair in with the alt right on this occasion, but there's always next time.

  15. #17940
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMH View Post
    No, just that everyone who voted Tory and Brexit is responsible for racism towards Muslims.
    Doubt anyone here has ever said that either, but feel free to prove me wrong as I wouldn't swear to it.



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