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Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #17191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    from an adversary who was at the time hacking their opponent's systems...given all the history between the two countries...no i don't think that is very common...
    A country is not a monolith. Going by this logic, if Russia developed the cure for cancer, it would be collusion for Americans to get that information.

  2. #17192
    International Coach Anil's Avatar
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    what i said doesn't extrapolate to "a country is a monolith" and the example you gave is not in the least analogous to what happened...
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  3. #17193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    what i said doesn't extrapolate to "a country is a monolith" and the example you gave is not in the least analogous to what happened...
    okay

  4. #17194
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    cool...glad we agree...


  5. #17195
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    But the law they are talking about just mentions foreign nationals in general. It doesn't matter if it's an ally or not (from what I gather which may not be a lot)
    from what i've read (and not everyone agrees), it wasn't illegal. but only on what you'd describe as a technicality; frankly, the facts of the matter look sleazy as hell and at face value would seem to clearly establish the intent to collude.

    hence the "surely no one is quite this stupid" take.
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  6. #17196
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    Donald Trump Jnr has an IQ equivalent to a box of rocks but that is hardly a recent discovery

    IMO, it's simply a reflection of the dodgy way that his family has always done business more than anything else
    Last edited by social; 11-07-2017 at 07:14 PM.

  7. #17197
    Hall of Fame Member harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    from what i've read (and not everyone agrees), it wasn't illegal. but only on what you'd describe as a technicality; frankly, the facts of the matter look sleazy as hell and at face value would seem to clearly establish the intent to collude.

    hence the "surely no one is quite this stupid" take.
    What I am asking is how can collusion wrt information be a crime? All candidates and their campaigns get information from foreign sources surely in the age of the internet.
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  9. #17199
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harsh.ag View Post
    What I am asking is how can collusion wrt information be a crime? All candidates and their campaigns get information from foreign sources surely in the age of the internet.
    consider how a foreign government collects sensitive information on one's country.

  10. #17200
    Hall of Fame Member harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    consider how a foreign government collects sensitive information on one's country.
    If the info is collected illegally, that's a different thing altogether. But that law just talks about any valuable information from any foreign national. That's bonkers imo.
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  11. #17201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    from what i've read (and not everyone agrees), it wasn't illegal. but only on what you'd describe as a technicality; frankly, the facts of the matter look sleazy as hell and at face value would seem to clearly establish the intent to collude.

    hence the "surely no one is quite this stupid" take.
    Yep, this seems to be the consensus from what I've seen and read & it's yet to be confirmed 100% that the lady lawyer was directly affiliated to the Kremlin. The problem may however be the lack of disclosure given the collusion has been a hot topic for the last 8 months or so.

    All said, if the shoe were on the other foot and it was a foreign lawyer who had the infamous Trump access Hollywood tape, and approached the Clinton campaign to meet with this bombshell, we all know they wouldn't have skipped the chance to meet for the world. Anything for some dirt on the opposition. . ;p .
    Last edited by Zinzan; 12-07-2017 at 12:57 AM.

  12. #17202
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzan View Post
    Yep, this seems to be the consensus from what I've seen and read & it's yet to be confirmed 100% that the lady lawyer was directly affiliated to the Kremlin. the problem may however be the lack of disclosure given the collusion has been a hot topic for the last 8 months or so.

    All said, if the shoe were on the other foot and it was a foreign lawyer who had the infamous Trump access Hollywood tape, and approached the Clinton campaign to meet with this bombshell, we all no they wouldn't have skipped the meeting. ;p .
    yeah the lack of disclosure, followed by the constantly changing story, followed by the comprehensive self-clowning is what stands out here.

  13. #17203
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    I can't believe 'part of the Russian governments efforts' wouldn't ring alarm bells in anyones head, even if the offer was BS as he claims.
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  14. #17204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbacks View Post
    I can't believe 'part of the Russian governments efforts' wouldn't ring alarm bells in anyones head, even if the offer was BS as he claims.
    Agree to an extent, but tbf the Russian interference hype wasn't nearly the thing back in June '16 as it has been in the last 8-10 months. Furthermore Trump Jr was a novice in political campaigning at that time, and whether it was stupid or not, there's a reasonable case of it being ignorance on his part & there being nothing more in his mind than getting dirt on Hillary. It's not actually anything new for campaigns getting sensitive info from foreigners on opposition, especially at a time this Russian thing hadn't grown the legs it has post the election. Campaigns would generally take anything they can get from anywhere, as long as it can be validated. Campaign manager (at the time) Paul Manafort should have known better though.

    As I said earlier, the fact this wasn't disclosed in the early days post the Election win could be the concern for the Whitehouse though.
    Last edited by Zinzan; 12-07-2017 at 02:57 AM.

  15. #17205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzan View Post
    Agree to an extent, but tbf the Russian interference hype wasn't nearly the thing back in June '16 as it has been in the last 8-10 months.
    It runs contrary to the claim that it's all a recent media beat up though. Here we have an e-mail chain concerning Russian influence well before the media/Dems got really interested by the pre-election leaks and hacking.
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