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Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #15916
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    Well, yeah, it's still a ban on Muslims. There's no temporal aspect to the word "ban" last I checked.
    Disingenuous to leave out the "until we know what's going on" part, just as it would be to report a suspension as an expulsion & the labeling of 'some illegal immigrants' as being 'all Mexicans'.

    The bigger point is most of the mainstream media over-report, exaggerate and misrepresent Trump's BS, while the likes of Fox under-report it & intentionally don't call his BS for what it is.

    Surely nobody still denies the likes of the New York Times, CNN & NBC go out of their way to overplay Trump's negative stuff, even if a lot of it is warranted while completely ignoring any half decent things he does. While Fox, and many conservative outlets do precisely the opposite. Those little things around context matter.
    Last edited by Zinzan; 22-03-2017 at 02:29 AM.

  2. #15917
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    James once banned Brockley from CW for a while because his account had been compromised. He literally banned him totally until we could figure out what was going on.

    It was still a ban.
    The better analogy would have been pointing out the difference between a 1 week ban and a perma-ban, in which there is a significance difference, but blah.

  3. #15918
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzan View Post
    The better analogy would have been pointing out the difference between a 1 week ban and a perma-ban, in which there is a significance difference, but blah.
    If I promised to ban all new NZ registrations until I could figure out what was going on that could result in Blocky and Jord joining then I think it'd be accurate to describe that as a promise of a "NZ ban".

    To me, Trump absolutely promised a Muslim ban. Despite the media's claims I don't think he actually delivered one (which I guess is where I'd agree with you - on the actual delivery rather than the promise), although he clearly delivered on something inspired by that original idea anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJediBrah View Post
    Next week I'll probably be arguing the opposite

  4. #15919
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post

    To me, Trump absolutely promised a Muslim ban. Despite the media's claims I don't think he actually delivered one (which I guess is where I'd agree with you - on the actual delivery rather than the promise), although he clearly delivered on something inspired by that original idea anyway.
    To me, his post San Bernardino statement was an opportunistic whack at the Obama administration by implying they have no idea what's going on, but even taking it for what it is I still contend reporting it as 'Trump calls to ban Muslim's, with nothing else to it, is an opportune & somewhat disingenuous headline.


    Quote Originally Posted by Prince EWS View Post
    If I promised to ban all new NZ registrations until I could figure out what was going on that could result in Blocky and Jord joining then I think it'd be accurate to describe that as a promise of a "NZ ban".
    That would only be a good analogy if you were running to be a mod at the time of that statement, because you really wanted to expose the one & only existing mod who you felt wasn't dealing with trolls effectively, leading to some CW deaths.


  5. #15920
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinzan View Post
    To me, his post San Bernardino statement was an opportunistic whack at the Obama administration by implying they have no idea what's going on, but even taking it for what it is I still contend reporting it as 'Trump calls to ban Muslim's, with nothing else to it, is an opportune & somewhat disingenuous headline.
    Eh, I think this is just vague rather than actually misleading or disingenuous, but I don't really have strong feelings on it tbh.

  6. #15921
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    most of the media is projecting him as an unstable, constantly lying president who has surrounded himself with people harboring extremist views, who gets all his news from infowars, breitbart and fox & friends...someone who lashes out at everyone except sycophants showering him with unreserved praise...what part of any of that isn't an actual fact? the constant coverage is something he provokes quite deliberately and something he clearly revels in, and even the most biased opinion pieces don't portray him as the devil incarnate or anything...

    also you sidestepped my question on the positives of his presidency so far...what should the media report to counterbalance these negatives that they have not done so far?
    None of it?

    If you don't think the media is ridiculously biased against Trump or severely biased against the Right you haven't been following the news the last 16 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    I think the current situation was close to their median expected outcome. But they couldn't discount the possibility that he would be country-ruiningly terrible because he kept saying he would do country-ruiningly terrible things. And tbf he still might.

    I think society as a whole has more of an 'everything will turn out ok' bias than anything else. Our institutions feel invulnerable and eternal because we've never known anything else. And usually they do pull through. But that doesn't mean the people who worried about them were wrong to.
    Nah, they're mostly considered that way because they're framed as such. There's a reason why Obamacare either before, during or after hasn't gotten "country-ruiningly" coverage and that is because their politics lean way to the left. Obama got, for the most part, a free ride. Trump is barely in office and they're still going on about Russia without a shred of evidence.
    Last edited by Ikki; 22-03-2017 at 03:35 AM.
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  7. #15922
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    I don't quite get this logic. If there's a 10% tail risk of, say, nuclear war then that doesn't make nuclear war particularly likely, but that's something you should all yell about regardless.
    Then do it with all the Presidents, not just the Republicans. The reality is that they simply turn his plainspeak into something that it never ever was and they've done it enough times now that the excuse of "we were just worried" doesn't wash. They're blatantly manipulating the social narrative outside of what is happening in reality. That is not reporting the news, that is propaganda.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Nevertheless this media establishment is much better than Breitbart, Infowars, or Fox News, for the same reason that the US is better than Russia: an institution that holds itself to a high moral standard is better than one that doesn't, even when it often fails to meet that moral standard.
    Nah, same ****, different smell.

    Just look at the above: when the MSM gets something wrong or simply lies it is critiqued with a barrel of excuses (which still rely on lies). If Infowars or Breitbart get it wrong or lie, they're the Nazi party's official news source. We give them too much of the benefit of the doubt because they are the establishment and we do not know how to live without it. That's the underlying problem with a lot of the divide.
    Last edited by Ikki; 22-03-2017 at 03:36 AM.
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  8. #15923
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Uh, there's an open FBI investigation. That's a bit more than "not a shred of evidence", and unless you have TS/SCI clearance then you aren't in a position to say otherwise.

    In any case, it's completely impossible for me to have any sympathy for Trump whatsoever given that someone concerned about fairness and truthful depictions of fact would logically go to the extra effort to not waste a week everyone's time with complete bullshit like "Obama tapped my phone!" and continuously doubling down on it.
    Last edited by Spark; 22-03-2017 at 05:15 AM.
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  9. #15924
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    None of it?

    If you don't think the media is ridiculously biased against Trump or severely biased against the Right you haven't been following the news the last 16 years.
    I suppose it depends on how you define 'the right', but in the UK most of the UK media is unquestionably right leaning, and anyone suggesting otherwise hasn't been following it for a whole lot more than 16 years.

    As for Trump, the extent and regularity of the lies emanating from his team are a matter of unarguable fact, and no objective observer would suggest otherwise. Obviously that excludes Fox and over here the Daily Express & Daily Mail, but any sane person already knows that.

  10. #15925
    Cricketer Of The Year Ausage's Avatar
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  11. #15926
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    Due to the amount of furore and angst shown by mainstream media and politicians you'd think that there would be major opposition to the 'Muslim ban' by the Trump administration in the community - but there isn't.

    The msm is out-of-step with the opinion of the voter yet again, and it's shredding our democratic system.


    More Americans support Donald Trump's travel ban than oppose it, poll shows
    More Americans support Donald Trump's travel ban than oppose it, poll shows | The Independent
    First Muslim Ban Poll Finds Americans Support Trump Order by 7-Point Margin
    Reuters/Ipsos Muslim ban poll finds support for order.
    Poll: 49% of Americans agree with Trump's immigration ban
    49% of Americans agree with Trump's immigration ban - Business Insider
    And in Europe;

    Most Europeans want immigration ban from Muslim-majority countries, poll reveals
    Most Europeans want immigration ban from Muslim-majority countries, poll reveals | The Independent

    I think that It is very important to note that the above polls are most likely driven by the general level concern about 'political Islam' which is deemed to be incompatible with Western culture. I really don't think that there is much concern about individual Muslims at all, who after all are just normal people like everyone else on the planet - obviously. But unfortunately the 'net effect' of Muslim immigration is the inevitable importation of 'political Islam'. That is what Westerners are really opposed to.

    As always, the problem is 'organised religion' or 'politicised religion', not religion itself.
    Last edited by watson; 22-03-2017 at 02:52 PM.

  12. #15927
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Wow - Nunes just said there are "multiple FISA warrants out there" involving Trump.
    Is... uh, is he allowed to say this? I thought pretty much everything specific involving the FISA court was very, very classified, which is why hardly anyone can find out anything about it.

  13. #15928
    Cricketer Of The Year Ausage's Avatar
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    So Trump's communications were monitored but the word "wiretapping" may have been a stretch is my understanding of the Nunes thing. In other words he shot his mouth off too quickly but he wasn't lying.

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    It was the computer not a virus that got me banned.
    When i clicked on something it literally would keep on clicking on a link to it opened.
    This is a better computer.
    Ews are you referring to my video,it was just Trumps' prayer breakfast,thought it was open to discussion.

  15. #15930
    Global Moderator Prince EWS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brockley View Post
    It was the computer not a virus that got me banned.
    When i clicked on something it literally would keep on clicking on a link to it opened.
    This is a better computer.
    Ews are you referring to my video,it was just Trumps' prayer breakfast,thought it was open to discussion.
    Nah I was just using your previous unfortunate ban as an example for my point. Had nothing to do with your posts in here at all.



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