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Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #15886
    Cricketer Of The Year Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    what are some of the positive things the repubs have done in recent months that you feel haven't been highlighted in the news media?
    I think the relentless negativity around Trump was overblown. I think he's a bad candidate that was made out to be Satan incarnate by a media that couldn't stop themselves from overreaching. I don't have time right now to dredge up specifics, but we've gone over them countless times in this thread.
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    Cricketer Of The Year Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    That wasn't my point at all. I was saying that just because a significant portion of the public believes one thing, you can't use that fact alone as a means of arguing that a media outlet is doing a poor job or is biased.
    I agree, but Watson's main point was the right doesn't deserve the level of negativity it gets from (for lack of a better term) the mainstream media. I was pointing out that it's not possible to argue that point by simply saying "well they're simply wrong on everything". If I misrepresented your position I apologise.

  3. #15888
    International Coach Anil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    I think the relentless negativity around Trump was overblown. I think he's a bad candidate that was made out to be Satan incarnate by a media that couldn't stop themselves from overreaching. I don't have time right now to dredge up specifics, but we've gone over them countless times in this thread.
    most of the media is projecting him as an unstable, constantly lying president who has surrounded himself with people harboring extremist views, who gets all his news from infowars, breitbart and fox & friends...someone who lashes out at everyone except sycophants showering him with unreserved praise...what part of any of that isn't an actual fact? the constant coverage is something he provokes quite deliberately and something he clearly revels in, and even the most biased opinion pieces don't portray him as the devil incarnate or anything...

    also you sidestepped my question on the positives of his presidency so far...what should the media report to counterbalance these negatives that they have not done so far?

  4. #15889
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    I agree, but Watson's main point was the right doesn't deserve the level of negativity it gets from (for lack of a better term) the mainstream media. I was pointing out that it's not possible to argue that point by simply saying "well they're simply wrong on everything". If I misrepresented your position I apologise.
    let's not misrepresent watson's "point" here, it was that because ~40% of the population have a favorable opinion of him, there should be an equivalent positive coverage of him in the media...
    Last edited by Anil; 20-03-2017 at 10:01 PM.
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  5. #15890
    Cricketer Of The Year Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    most of the media is projecting him as an unstable, constantly lying president who has surrounded himself with people harboring extremist views, who gets all his news from infowars, breitbart and fox & friends...someone who lashes out at everyone except sycophants showering him with unreserved praise...what part of any of that isn't an actual fact? the constant coverage is something he provokes quite deliberately and something he clearly revels in, and even the most biased opinion pieces don't portray him as the devil incarnate or anything...

    also you sidestepped my question on the positives of his presidency so far...what should the media report to counterbalance these negatives that they have not done so far?
    Not trying to sidestep anything. I think the worst examples of media bias from these outlets occurred in the leadup to the election. You asked me a question with a narrow definition and I expanded on it.

  6. #15891
    Cricketer Of The Year Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anil View Post
    let's not misrepresent watson's "point" here, it was that because ~40% of the population have a favorable opinion of him, there should be an equivalent positive coverage of him in the media...
    Cmon man, that wasn't his whole post. Do we really have to do this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnz View Post
    That wasn't my point at all. I was saying that just because a significant portion of the public believes one thing, you can't use that fact alone as a means of arguing that a media outlet is doing a poor job or is biased.
    If the media doesn't report a public concern and then give it a fair hearing with both sides of the argument presented openly and equally then it has failed in its duty.

    Quite clearly, Clinton lost the election because the msm grossly under-reported the public concern in North East America regarding manufacturing. If more journalists other than Michael Moore had properly articulated the rising anger in States like Michigan and Wisconsin then it is likely that the Democrats would have adjusted their election stategy, formulated some good policy, and then won.

    Then there was Pennsylvania which is currently the 'refugee capital' of America as the BBC put it. Very few from the msm bothered to ask the local people from counties like Lancaster whether they minded having their traditional culture uprooted. Consequently it was an unforseen Democrat bloodbath pretty much everywhere bar Philadelphia.

    So from a Democrat point of view I would say that the msm did a very poor job. But they would follow their entrenched bias regarding Globalism because it suits their corporate owners.
    Last edited by watson; 21-03-2017 at 12:50 AM.

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    U19 Vice-Captain Munificent_Fool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    Good points MF, but if 3% of network news stories are favourable to the Republicans, 43% are negative, and the rest are neutral, then this indicates a real systemic problem (see previous post).

    Of course you could argue that Republican policy really is that bad, but that would go against current polls which show about a 40% favourability/approval rating.

    Something in the msm is out of whack here.
    A small post but so many things to unpack.

    1.What standard are they using to adjudicate on what constitutes positive/negative/neutral?
    2.How do those numbers, in themselves, demonstrate a "real systemic problem"?
    3.What is the relationship between good news reporting and approval rating of one particular party?

    There's no sense of proportion in what you're arguing, imo. Okay so the publication in question is biased against one party. Is that instructive? No. The whole conversation is confined to a political corridor (the dichotomy of the two parties) so narrow that it's almost pointless for anyone outside it, like me, to argue about it.
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  9. #15894
    U19 Vice-Captain Munificent_Fool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    If the media doesn't report a public concern and then give it a fair hearing with both sides of the argument presented openly and equally then it has failed in its duty.
    And what if there aren't two sides of the argument? Their job isn't to be even-handed. Their job is to be objective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    I think the relentless negativity around Trump was overblown. I think he's a bad candidate that was made out to be Satan incarnate by a media that couldn't stop themselves from overreaching. I don't have time right now to dredge up specifics, but we've gone over them countless times in this thread.
    I think the current situation was close to their median expected outcome. But they couldn't discount the possibility that he would be country-ruiningly terrible because he kept saying he would do country-ruiningly terrible things. And tbf he still might.

    I think society as a whole has more of an 'everything will turn out ok' bias than anything else. Our institutions feel invulnerable and eternal because we've never known anything else. And usually they do pull through. But that doesn't mean the people who worried about them were wrong to.

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    Cricketer Of The Year Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    I think society as a whole has more of an 'everything will turn out ok' bias than anything else. Our institutions feel invulnerable and eternal because we've never known anything else. And usually they do pull through. But that doesn't mean the people who worried about them were wrong to.
    While I think there's some truth to this, I think a far greater danger in modern times is over-stimulation resulting in societal instability that is necessary to erode the integrity of those institutions. I think this lurch to the extremes from both sides is a reaction to how much overhyped "the left/right want to destroy society" type information we consume. Your CNNs and NYTs are every bit as guilty of this as the Breitbarts of the world. While there's a lot to dislike about Trump, making him out to be an uber-demon, particularly by reporting his comments in the most negative light possible, does nothing but escalate the underlying cause of the problem.

    And I don't agree that people who overhyped the threat of Trump were right to if he doesn't turn out to be as bad as feared. If you say he'll be Hitler mk2 and he just turns out to be a dud president you don't get credit because there's a possibility of him being such if you read the tea leaves in a way that turns out to be incorrect. You get credit for calling him what he ends up being. As you say though, it's very early days and it's impossible to know how it will turn out.
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  12. #15897
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    I don't quite get this logic. If there's a 10% tail risk of, say, nuclear war then that doesn't make nuclear war particularly likely, but that's something you should all yell about regardless.
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  13. #15898
    Cricketer Of The Year Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    I don't quite get this logic. If there's a 10% tail risk of, say, nuclear war then that doesn't make nuclear war particularly likely, but that's something you should all yell about regardless.
    Depends. Does yelling about it reduce the risk to 5% or raise it to 15% in your hypothetical? Are you reporting soberly on the possibility of such a scenario or are you running it 24/7 as a definitive end to humanity in an effort to capture more attention? The media's coverage doesn't exist in a vacuum.

  14. #15899
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    Depends. Does yelling about it reduce the risk to 5% or raise it to 15% in your hypothetical? Are you reporting soberly on the possibility of such a scenario or are you running it 24/7 as a definitive end to humanity in an effort to capture more attention? The media's coverage doesn't exist in a vacuum.
    Well, I mean, the yelling is in a context (in this hypothetical, to be clear), between the 10% risk and a candidate where that risk would be presumably much lower (otherwise there would be very different things to yell about), and that people should be cognisant of said risk when they make a choice.

  15. #15900
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    Does yelling about it reduce the risk to 5% or raise it to 15% in your hypothetical?
    Nobody will ever know, surely? Media coverage often produces unintended consequences. But ultimately we do still want a free press, and we definitely want them to make some noise when there's a 10% nuclear war risk.
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