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Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #15631
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by straw man View Post
    Yeah I think it's just an example of criticising him for the most egregious examples of lying and misconduct, rather than other things that may be more important but are plausibly deniable.

    Quite similar to the criticism Trump and Conway got for the inauguration crowd-size lie - very far from the most important thing going round, but demonstrably, unequivocally, a lie. I think the line that 'we can't trust you on this so how can we trust you on anything else' is also fair.
    True, but it's one thing to lie to the public, another (from a legal standpoint) to lie to Congress. Not that I think he can or should be done under perjury, ofc. It's just a baffling thing to do if it really is all above board.
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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Spikey's Avatar
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    E M A I L S

    Reuters U.S. News‏Verified account @ReutersUS
    BREAKING: Vice President Pence used private email for state business while Indiana governor and was hacked - Indianapolis Star
    _Ed_ likes this.
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    Will say this once and then nothing else. Defamation laws quite clear in Aus.be careful.

  3. #15633
    International Coach straw man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    True, but it's one thing to lie to the public, another (from a legal standpoint) to lie to Congress. Not that I think he can or should be done under perjury, ofc. It's just a baffling thing to do if it really is all above board.
    Yeah I wasn't saying this Sessions thing was unimportant, more just focussing on the 'there's nowhere to run - you really can't deny this' aspect.

  4. #15634
    International Coach straw man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey View Post
    E M A I L S

    Reuters U.S. News‏Verified account @ReutersUS
    BREAKING: Vice President Pence used private email for state business while Indiana governor and was hacked - Indianapolis Star
    But this week using a private email server is virtuous and patriotic, just like voting in favour of military action, signing executive orders, using a teleprompter, contributing to a charity, and being peripherally involved in a foreign intervention with loss of life on your side.

    Get with the program Spikey.


  5. #15635
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend _Ed_'s Avatar
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    Indeed.

  6. #15636
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by straw man View Post
    Yeah I wasn't saying this Sessions thing was unimportant, more just focussing on the 'there's nowhere to run - you really can't deny this' aspect.
    I do think that there are perfectly "innocent" reasons for this (political expediency, basically). But it's still a really stupid thing to do.

    Having said that, it's a particular brand of stupid which appears to be repeating itself over and over again...

    And re: the posts above, this was more or less the point I kept making. It wasn't that there was nothing to the HRC emails thing, and I certainly understood why IC people were angry about it, but the political point-scoring around it from the GOP always struck me as intensely disingenuous.
    Last edited by Spark; 02-03-2017 at 08:27 PM.

  7. #15637
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    True, but it's one thing to lie to the public, another (from a legal standpoint) to lie to Congress. Not that I think he can or should be done under perjury, ofc. It's just a baffling thing to do if it really is all above board.
    If he did lie about it under oath (as opposed to not remembering) it is perjury, isn't it?

  8. #15638
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    If he did lie about it under oath (as opposed to not remembering) it is perjury, isn't it?
    Yeah, but how would you prove that he lied? I personally reckon he did, but I don't see how it could be proved.

  9. #15639
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    It's not easy, though it's often a good idea to cross-examine someone in that position's ego. Suggest that if they aren't lying they must be stupid. Doesn't always work, sometimes it does. It's always entertaining though.

    You could always call the other party to the conversation to give evidence. That won't happen here either, but fmd it would be funny if it did.

  10. #15640
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    It's not easy, though it's often a good idea to cross-examine someone in that position's ego. Suggest that if they aren't lying they must be stupid. Doesn't always work, sometimes it does. It's always entertaining though.
    I mean the line he's currently running with is that he only meant it in a certain narrow context, which of course was neither spelled out nor at all obvious when he said what he said virtually unprompted to Sen. Franken. It's... not exactly convincing, to be honest. I guess you could go for "I don't recall", but then again how the **** do you forget meeting the Russian ambassador? Is that something that happens casually over lunch every other day?

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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    I thought it looked like perjury. I can't imagine a neutral jury buying the 'that meeting didn't count because I had a different hat on' defence. But obvs I know sfa about perjury law.

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    The Washington Post started the furore a day or so ago and now it has made a significant concession


    Could Sessions face perjury charges? Former federal prosecutors think not.

    .....There are obvious holes that Sessions could already walk through (and, in statements, has).

    Even had Sessions been asked more directly — “Did you make contact with Russian officials as part of your duties with the campaign?” — Butler said he thinks Sessions could “make a credible case that the answer is no,” and that the contacts with the Russian ambassador mirrored his contacts with several dozen other ambassadors he contacted in 2016, as a senator and member of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ors-think-not/
    It appears that you can't prosecute someone for simply doing their job, that is meeting with foreign ambassadors. And short of producing official (or unofficial?) minutes that say something like;

    Sessions: "How's the hacking of the DNC going Mr Ambassador?"
    Ambassador: "Lovely. Got some really good stuff on Podesta."

    Then it appears that the saga will end up as little more than is a mud-slinging exercise. Kind of like the Clinton e-mail saga.

    Probably sold a lot of papers though.
    Last edited by watson; 03-03-2017 at 12:19 AM.

  13. #15643
    Cricketer Of The Year Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    And re: the posts above, this was more or less the point I kept making. It wasn't that there was nothing to the HRC emails thing, and I certainly understood why IC people were angry about it, but the political point-scoring around it from the GOP always struck me as intensely disingenuous.
    Setting aside that people saw Hillary's emails as smoke with the Foundation & pay to play being the real fire, the reality is that both sides are only interested in political point scoring. The recent furor about Trump uninviting media from press conferences ignores the fact that Obama had a similar long running battle with Fox that very few of the same people complaining about Trump had a problem with. While there were differences between Obama's review into Iraqi immigration and Trump's "Muslim ban" the differences in reactions were far more about who implemented than anything else. There's a bunch of other examples but my point should be clear.

    People (left and right) aren't interested in applying their principles evenly, they're interested in advancing the cause of their team. You can condemn the GOP but posts like Spikey's are no different.
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  14. #15644
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Spikey's Avatar
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    my post is actually a stance on emails thankyouverymuch (never email)

  15. #15645
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    Reminder this is literally 9D chess playing out

    Trump put all these cronies in his cabinet to put their misdeeds in the spotlight and destroy them as part of a master-plan. Literally nothing to worry about.
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