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Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #15181
    The Wheel is Forever silentstriker's Avatar
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    It's really hard to assess legacy as Spark said, but I'd put Obama around there, probably even in the top ten.

    Off the top of my head, I'd put only Lincoln, Washington, Roosevelt as definitely higher. Possibly Eisenhower and Jefferson as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    I don't think Obama should be ranked at all tbh. You can't assess the historical legacy and impact of a presidency whose consequences or impact are so manifestly unclear. Even today, the historical legacy of, say, Woodrow Wilson is very much up for debate.
    The legacy of Obama is already clear - it is the decimation of the Democratic Party across all levels of government, and a country that will remain divided and fragmented for decades to come because he helped create the 'perfect storm' that enabled Trump and Trumpism.

    His 8 years did have style though, and perhaps that's all that matters. Never mind the hapless policy and the torpor as long as the personality is smooth and the sound-bites suitably pleasant.
    Last edited by watson; 17-02-2017 at 08:18 PM.

  3. #15183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    I don't think Obama should be ranked at all tbh. You can't assess the historical legacy and impact of a presidency whose consequences or impact are so manifestly unclear. Even today, the historical legacy of, say, Woodrow Wilson is very much up for debate.
    The legacy of Obama is already clear - it is the decimation of the Democratic Party across all levels of government, and a country that will remain divided and fragmented for decades to come because he helped create the 'perfect storm' that enabled Trump and Trumpism.

    His 8 years did have style though, and perhaps that's all that matters. Never mind the policy and the torpor as long as the personality is smooth and the sound-bites suitably pleasant.

  4. #15184
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnske View Post
    Odd that Lyndon "Vietnam is going well, I promise" Johnson was so high too
    Very good domestic president, and I have more reason to hate him than most.
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  5. #15185
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    The legacy of Obama is already clear - it is the decimation of the Democratic Party across all levels of government, and a country that will remain divided and fragmented for decades to come because he helped create the 'perfect storm' that enabled Trump and Trumpism.

    His 8 years did have style though, and perhaps that's all that matters. Never mind the policy and the torpor as long as the personality is smooth and the sound-bites suitably pleasant.
    I've known eight year olds with a deeper understanding of history than you.

    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    It's really hard to assess legacy as Spark said, but I'd put Obama around there, probably even in the top ten.

    Off the top of my head, I'd put only Lincoln, Washington, Roosevelt as definitely higher. Possibly Eisenhower and Jefferson as well.
    Truman for sure.

  6. #15186
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Buzzfeed has some good stuff, but I really didn't like that. I thought it was really baseless. Almost every paragraph asserted something I think is just not true without any evidence.
    Can't agree with Buzzfeed having much good stuff, but you're 100% correct about that article, just full of baseless assertions.

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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMH View Post
    Why is Obama in the top 40?
    Lol, because he was spoke diplomatically, went on talkshows & played golf I think.

  8. #15188
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Zinzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    The legacy of Obama is already clear - it is the decimation of the Democratic Party across all levels of government, and a country that will remain divided and fragmented for decades to come because he helped create the 'perfect storm' that enabled Trump and Trumpism.

    His 8 years did have style though, and perhaps that's all that matters. Never mind the hapless policy and the torpor as long as the personality is smooth and the sound-bites suitably pleasant.
    Tend to agree with the first paragraph, but I'd say subtle divisiveness.
    Last edited by Zinzan; 17-02-2017 at 09:26 PM.

  9. #15189
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Zinzan's Avatar
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    Incidentally, I see Milo Yiannopoulos will be on Bill Maher's show this wkd & I see a journalist who was also going to be on the panel has pulled out once he learned he'd be sitting with Milo.

  10. #15190
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    Not the first bloke who has pulled out on Milo I dare say

  11. #15191
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentstriker View Post
    It's really hard to assess legacy as Spark said, but I'd put Obama around there, probably even in the top ten.

    Off the top of my head, I'd put only Lincoln, Washington, Roosevelt as definitely higher. Possibly Eisenhower and Jefferson as well.
    I think Johnson is a massively under rated US president in terms of legacy, but understandably Vietnam sullies it massively even though Kennedy kicked that off.

  12. #15192
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    The legacy of Obama is already clear - it is the decimation of the Democratic Party across all levels of government, and a country that will remain divided and fragmented for decades to come because he helped create the 'perfect storm' that enabled Trump and Trumpism.

    His 8 years did have style though, and perhaps that's all that matters. Never mind the policy and the torpor as long as the personality is smooth and the sound-bites suitably pleasant.
    Terrible post. Obama inherited an absolute nightmare, and the country was better for his eight years.

  13. #15193
    Hall of Fame Member harsh.ag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Terrible post. Obama inherited an absolute nightmare, and the country was better for his eight years.
    watson in 2008: The legacy of Bush is already clear - it is the decimation of the Republican Party across all levels of government, and a country that will remain divided and fragmented for decades to come because he helped create the 'perfect storm' that enabled the first African American to become President.
    indiaholic, NZTailender and Shri like this.
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  14. #15194
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    I think Johnson is a massively under rated US president in terms of legacy, but understandably Vietnam sullies it massively even though Kennedy kicked that off.
    Reading how the escalation before the Gulf of Tonkin incident happened is pretty grim tbh. Consistent decisions made on the assumption that someone down the line would back off eventually, and no one ever did, and eventually LBJ felt he had no other option.

  15. #15195
    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Terrible post. Obama inherited an absolute nightmare, and the country was better for his eight years.
    Whether or not America is better for his eight years (clearly opinions are split down the middle in the states on that), hard to argue that the rest of the world is any better off, in particular the Middle East. A true successor to Dubya, well played Obama.
    Zinzan and Ikki like this.



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