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Thread: The American Politics thread

  1. #15016
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Burgey's Avatar
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    As opposed to the traditional conservative governments of the likes of Howard, Reagan and Thatcher who cared more about money, war and power than they do about preservation, culture and society.

    Word out: that's what conservatives do​ care about.
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    You need to clap a cows c**** over your head and get a woolly bull to f**** some sense into you.

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  2. #15017
    International Coach StephenZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    As opposed to the traditional conservative governments of the likes of Howard, Reagan and Thatcher who cared more about money, war and power than they do about preservation, culture and society.

    Word out: that's what conservatives do​ care about.
    I think that's very broad statement..... I would definitely not be comparing the Conservatives in Britain to the Republicans in America very different ideals for populations that think very differently, I can`t say much about the Australian Conservative party.
    "The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they’ve found it."

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  3. #15018
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Burgey's Avatar
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    And tbf there's very little to be said for them.

  4. #15019
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Burgey's Avatar
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    Flynn has apparently resigned. A victim of fake news and the liberal hate media. I feel sorry for him. Sad.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Flynn has apparently resigned. A victim of fake news and the liberal hate media. I feel sorry for him. Sad.
    yeah it's a tragedy...although i am sure they will bring someone equally repellent, sorry i mean brilliant and qualified to replace him...

  6. #15021
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Spikey's Avatar
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    he'll just end up back in the fold anyway
    http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blo...cricket-legacy

    Brad McNamara ‏@bbuzzmc
    Will say this once and then nothing else. Defamation laws quite clear in Aus.be careful.

  7. #15022
    International Coach Anil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikey View Post
    he'll just end up back in the fold anyway
    yeah he won't let loyal lapdogs like that go away completely...

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    Last edited by Anil; 14-02-2017 at 10:36 AM.

  9. #15024
    International Coach StephenZA's Avatar
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    Trump really is having problems with this media 'opposition'.... it almost like he is not fit to do the job!

    "Unfortunately, because of the fast pace of events, I inadvertently briefed the Vice President Elect and others with incomplete information regarding my phone calls with the Russian Ambassador. I have sincerely apologized to the President and the Vice President, and they have accepted my apology," Flynn said in his resignation letter.
    Apparently alternative facts don`t work both ways...
    Last edited by StephenZA; 13-02-2017 at 10:48 PM.

  10. #15025
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    As opposed to the traditional conservative governments of the likes of Howard, Reagan and Thatcher who cared more about money, war and power than they do about preservation, culture and society.

    Word out: that's what conservatives do​ care about.
    Now you know that I don't like Thatcher because she was 'radical' who wanted to transform Attlee's Britain. As for Howard, well he was a **** who merely carried on Keating's horrible Neoliberal agenda and achieved little of note. Not too sure about Reagan.

    So were Thatcher and Howard real Conservatives? Definitely not. Reagan? Possibly not.
    Last edited by watson; 13-02-2017 at 11:56 PM.

  11. #15026
    I can't believe I ate the whole thing NZTailender's Avatar
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    watson no true scotsmanning quite well here
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  12. #15027
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DriveClub View Post
    The reason for the crime epidemic in black communities is due to low economic/social status which goes back to slavery which existed just 40 years back. So you think that its that easy to come out of it because you think so?
    The big reason for crime in all communities has to do with their socio-economic factors. But it's not all to do with slavery. Blacks were of a comparatively higher socio-economic level even in the recent past as they were more likely - even more than white people for a time at the turn of the 20th century - to be from a two parent household. The welfare state has destroyed this culture amongst them and amongst society in general. This is not a race issue.

    There are plenty of black conservatives and economists like Thomas Sowell who have been saying the same thing for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by NZTailender View Post
    I know that's what the discussion was. You were essentially using whataboutery to try and say that police killing black people is not a thing, when it obviously is - and you said it again just there. The two exist, and I never said they didn't, but they have their own contexts, which are related, and don't exist in a vacuum.
    Yes, it is a manufactured narrative. There is no whataboutery involved. Black on black crime vs police killing innocent blacks. The numbers aren't even close. Even if the factors were exactly the same - which they're not - it still means an incredibly small proportion of the public that are black, innocent and get shot by the police. The factors aren't contributing to an epidemic in this regard because there is none.

    In 2015 cops killed twice as many white people than blacks. You might say in proportion to population more black people are shot, of which there is a descrepancy but one that can be explained via general crime statistics (which are influenced by socio-economic factors). Only 4% of homicides of blacks are due to police officers, whereas the number for whites and hispanics is 12%. Black and hispanic cops were 3.3 times more likelier to shoot black men than white cops. And maybe the most significant statistic: blacks are more 18.5 times more likely to kill cops than the other way round - 40% of cops are killed by black men.

    This isn't a joke, this is reality. This is just the culmination of a state that keeps a segment of their society poor and reliant, who then are incentivised by crime and as a result then face policing (or over-policing) and in a country of 300m people and many with guns around... deaths like these are going to happen.

    The narrative around this and BLM (I'm not addressing you exactly) about things having to be addressed in a particular order is a major problem which I feel conservatives/the right use to silence (omg SJW tactics) groups like BLM and their supporters because the underlying issues are vast and complex to solve, which no one wants to address and instead push the issues around to deflect away from having to deal with it. The idea people can't get mad about police killing unarmed black people because of black-on-black violence is a really inhumane one. Almost like "well what did you expect" or "you asked for it". I mean, you yourself are shifting the attention. Why does the attention have to be in one place only? The two are obviously interrelated and both need solving now, at the same time, and will only be solved in relation to each other, not in spite of.
    You're just playing partisan politics. BLM is a sham and continues to get exposed. The unfortunate thing is that many people still think it is a legitimate movement, and many won't let go of it purely for political reasons. That is in major part because of the leftist involvement in the media pushing this narrative. The right does want to address these issues, but it involves self-responsibility and less state influence - which has also been subject to demagoguery . The left will mutilate the issue, as they always do in issues involving race, and use their faux concern to feel better about themselves and to mislead people about who is on their side.

    People can get mad about a lot of things but they are clearly influenced by their surroundings (media). Overreporting and fake reporting are the reason the real issues - like many, many more multiples of black americans killing each other - are not being discussed over this nonsense. These kinds of identity politics is why the left is a joke and people are continuously and in more numbers moving to the right now. I am not being inhumane, and no one who mentions these stats are - this is why you can't have an honest discussion about it because people like yourself simply project a lack of morals or pure racism to the motives of anyone that simply does not agree with the narrative. This is why you have nutters rioting indignantly because they are looney enough to think the other side is just evil.

    People want black people and poor people to succeed by a collective addressing on what is really destroying their communities and racist cops killing unarmed and innocent black people is not even in the top 20 real day to day concerns for the average black person or poor person. If we can't shift the attention to what is more important and damning without being called racists or hearing insinuations of it, that should tell you all you need to know.
    Last edited by Ikki; 14-02-2017 at 02:07 AM.
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  13. #15028
    Hall of Fame Member Ikki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Spark, just sit down and have a fireside chat with these people. They're entitled to their views, after all. Just because their views are different and we don't agree doesn't mean we shouldn't seek to exclude them. That's all you need to do and everything will be all right.

    - The Hon. Zinzan Watson Chamberlain-Ikki, Munich 1938.
    Do you actually add anything to these discussions? Snide comments and nonsensical tirades...all you need now is a toothbrush moustache.

  14. #15029
    I can't believe I ate the whole thing NZTailender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikki View Post
    The big reason for crime in all communities has to do with their socio-economic factors. But it's not all to do with slavery. Blacks were of a comparatively higher socio-economic level even in the recent past as they were more likely - even more than white people for a time at the turn of the 20th century - to be from a two parent household. The welfare state has destroyed this culture amongst them and amongst society in general. This is not a race issue.

    There are plenty of black conservatives and economists like Thomas Sowell who have been saying the same thing for years.

    Yes, it is a manufactured narrative. There is no whataboutery involved. Black on black crime vs police killing innocent blacks. The numbers aren't even close. Even if the factors were exactly the same - which they're not - it still means an incredibly small proportion of the public that are black, innocent and get shot by the police. The factors aren't contributing to an epidemic in this regard because there is none.

    In 2015 cops killed twice as many white people than blacks. You might say in proportion to population more black people are shot, of which there is a descrepancy but one that can be explained via general crime statistics (which are influenced by socio-economic factors). Only 4% of homicides of blacks are due to police officers, whereas the number for whites and hispanics is 12%. Black and hispanic cops were 3.3 times more likelier to shoot black men than white cops. And maybe the most significant statistic: blacks are more 18.5 times more likely to kill cops than the other way round - 40% of cops are killed by black men.

    This isn't a joke, this is reality. This is just the culmination of a state that keeps a segment of their society poor and reliant, who then are incentivised by crime and as a result then face policing (or over-policing) and in a country of 300m people and many with guns around... deaths like these are going to happen.

    Did you just sum up by saying that it comes down to collateral damage because of the state?

    You're just playing partisan politics. BLM is a sham and continues to get exposed. The unfortunate thing is that many people still think it is a legitimate movement, and many won't let go of it purely for political reasons. That is in major part because of the leftist involvement in the media pushing this narrative. The right does want to address these issues, but it involves self-responsibility and less state influence - which has also been subject to demagoguery . The left will mutilate the issue, as they always do in issues involving race, and use their faux concern to feel better about themselves and to mislead people about who is on their side.

    People can get mad about a lot of things but they are clearly influenced by their surroundings (media). Overreporting and fake reporting are the reason the real issues - like many, many more multiples of black americans killing each other - are not being discussed over this nonsense. These kinds of identity politics is why the left is a joke and people are continuously and in more numbers moving to the right now. I am not being inhumane, and no one who mentions these stats are - this is why you can't have an honest discussion about it because people like yourself simply project a lack of morals or pure racism to the motives of anyone that simply does not agree with the narrative. This is why you have nutters rioting indignantly because they are looney enough to think the other side is just evil.

    People want black people and poor people to succeed by a collective addressing on what is really destroying their communities and racist cops killing unarmed and innocent black people is not even in the top 20 real day to day concerns for the average black person or poor person. If we can't shift the attention to what is more important and damning without being called racists or hearing insinuations of it, that should tell you all you need to know.
    Very interesting post Ikki and thanks for your thoughts. Do you honestly really believe that the reason why this isn't getting discussed is because of some left-media denial of fact, and not simply because a lot of people really don't give a **** about misdemeanour homicides? For the same reason no one really talks about increasing drug epidemics in rural white communities as mentioned by Spark previously? The black on black crime/there are worse issue facing the black community aspect only ever seems to come up in counter arguments as opposed to genuine reporting on the subject. But your overall posts seems to reject that the black community should object or protest when black people are unfairly killed by cops in a country that has a long history of abusing black people.

    Also the bolded made me lol, because it sounds like the right wants to simply do nothing.

  15. #15030
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    It's an anti-injustice movement as much as an anti-killing-of-blacks movement. When cops kill unarmed black people they invariably get away with it.

    I also think there are differences between an arm of the government killing people and private citizens killing people, especially when the former are never punished. Surely no libertarian needs those differences explained.

    Nevertheless it was an interesting post after a fairly long run of shite ones. I would tend to think if the effect of BLM is to make conservatives talk about black on black violence to change the subject, that's no bad thing. One side saying 'stop cops killing blacks' and another saying 'let's solve black on black violence' is a huge improvement on the deafening silence of ten years ago.



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