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Thread: The American Politics thread

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    Hall of Fame Member social's Avatar
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    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Spark, just sit down and have a fireside chat with these people. They're entitled to their views, after all. Just because their views are different and we don't agree doesn't mean we shouldn't seek to exclude them. That's all you need to do and everything will be all right.

    - The Hon. Zinzan Watson Chamberlain-Ikki, Munich 1938.
    Haha, even Chamberlain wasn't quite so craven in 1938.
    do you think people will be allowed to make violins?
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    This might be the first time in history that Americans are grateful their President can't call on their miltiary might.
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    "Hope is the fuel of progress and fear is the prison in which you put yourself" - Tony Benn

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    International Captain Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spark View Post
    I agree, but if we're going to be taking this approach in free speech debates we should apply it more evenly. And we should acknowledge that it's ****** but it isn't particularly threatening to anyone in the same way that PUA culture, for example, could be to a lot of women.
    Interesting to see a few people assuming criticism of the hashtag is code for "would like to shut it down". Not sure how anyone could think that given my (or Zinzan's) previous stances on speech issues. I'd prefer people didn't use it, but if they want to be assholes they're certainly free to do so.

    I agree PUA culture is pretty sickening. I think #killallmen is equally sickening but men having more capacity for violence changes the equation somewhat. As ideas they're both reprehensible and I don't think trying to evaluate one as better than the other is particularly helpful.
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    Cricketer Of The Year watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Spark, just sit down and have a fireside chat with these people. They're entitled to their views, after all. Just because their views are different and we don't agree doesn't mean we shouldn't seek to exclude them. That's all you need to do and everything will be all right.

    - The Hon. Zinzan Watson Chamberlain-Ikki, Munich 1938.
    These days the jack boot is on the other foot. If any group can be described as Nazi then it is more likely to be the 'Liberal Left'.

    I'm a gay New Yorker - and I'm coming out as a Conservative

    When Out magazine assigned me an interview with the Breitbart.com rabble-rouser Milo Yiannopoulos, I knew it would be controversial. In the gay and liberal communities in particular, he is a provocative and loathed figure, and I knew featuring him in such a liberal publication would get negative attention. He has been repeatedly kicked off Twitter for, among other things, reportedly inciting racist, sexist bullying of “Ghostbusters” actress Leslie Jones. Before interviewing Yiannopoulos, I thought he was a nasty attention-whore, but I wanted to do a neutral piece on him that simply put the facts out there.

    After the story posted online in the early hours of Sept. 21, I woke up to more than 100 Twitter notifications on my iPhone. Trolls were calling me a Nazi, death threats rolled in and a joke photo that I posed for in a burka served as “proof” that I am an Islamophobe.

    I’m not.

    Most disconcertingly, it wasn’t just strangers voicing radical discontent. Personal friends of mine — men in their 60s who had been my longtime mentors — were coming at me. They wrote on Facebook that the story was “irresponsible” and “dangerous.” A dozen or so people unfriended me. A petition was circulated online, condemning the magazine and my article. All I had done was write a balanced story on an outspoken Trump supporter for a liberal, gay magazine, and now I was being attacked. I felt alienated and frightened.......

    If you dare to question liberal stances or make an effort toward understanding why conservatives think the way they do, you are a traitor.

    It can seem like liberals are actually against free speech if it fails to conform with the way they think. And I don’t want to be a part of that club anymore.


    It used to be that if you were a gay, educated atheist living in New York, you had no choice but to be liberal. But as I met more Trump supporters with whom I was able to have engaging, civil discussions about issues that impact us all, I realized that I like these people — even if I have some issues with Trump himself. For example, I don’t like his travel ban or the cabinet choices he’s made.

    But I finally had to admit to myself that I am closer to the right than where the left is today. And, yes, just three months ago, I voted for Hillary Clinton......

    I?m a gay New Yorker ? and I?m coming out as a conservative | New York Post
    Last edited by watson; 13-02-2017 at 07:36 PM.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    He should just sit down and have a talk with them, exchange ideas and engage in a healthy discourse. They have a different point of view to his, he can sort it out with them, he just needs to acknowledge theirs is a valid viewpoint. #freedom
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    International Captain Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    He should just sit down and have a talk with them, exchange ideas and engage in a healthy discourse. They have a different point of view to his, he can sort it out with them, he just needs to acknowledge theirs is a valid viewpoint. #freedom
    Even better, lets hook them up with a free promotion deal. Spread the message!

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    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    https://www.wsj.com/articles/disney-...sts-1487034533

    Entitled to his views. Don't see a problem. Just the liberal hate media at it again.
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  9. #15009
    International Captain Ausage's Avatar
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    He's not a Nazi. He's just a stupid troll.

    EDIT: Also that article is behind a paywall.
    Last edited by Ausage; 13-02-2017 at 07:54 PM.

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    Cricketer Of The Year watson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    He should just sit down and have a talk with them, exchange ideas and engage in a healthy discourse. They have a different point of view to his, he can sort it out with them, he just needs to acknowledge theirs is a valid viewpoint. #freedom

    It is generally not possible to 'sit down and have a talk' with people from the Liberal Left without the conservation descending into hyper-emotional ridicule.

    Conservatives (real Conservatives, not the NeoCon variety) have tried for decades to have a reasonable discourse but in the end have simply handed the batton to Donald Trump because there is no other choice in the matter.

    In 2016 it takes the human equivalent of a fully armoured Sherman tank to take on 'NeoLib Nazis'. And that's a bad thing.
    Last edited by watson; 13-02-2017 at 07:57 PM.

  11. #15011
    Global Moderator Spark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    Interesting to see a few people assuming criticism of the hashtag is code for "would like to shut it down". Not sure how anyone could think that given my (or Zinzan's) previous stances on speech issues. I'd prefer people didn't use it, but if they want to be assholes they're certainly free to do so.

    I agree PUA culture is pretty sickening. I think #killallmen is equally sickening but men having more capacity for violence changes the equation somewhat. As ideas they're both reprehensible and I don't think trying to evaluate one as better than the other is particularly helpful.
    Not assuming any such thing.

  12. #15012
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausage View Post
    He's not a Nazi. He's just a stupid troll.

    EDIT: Also that article is behind a paywall.
    No worries then. If you've reached that conclusion I'll call Disney and get him reinstated. All a bit of harmless fun. Vive le #freedom.
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  13. #15013
    Cricket Web Staff Member Burgey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by watson View Post
    It is generally not possible to 'sit down and have a talk' with people from the Liberal Left without the conservation descending into hyper-emotional ridicule.

    Conservatives (real Conservatives, not the NeoCon variety) have tried for decades to have a reasonable discourse but in the end have simply handed the batton to Donald Trump because there is no other choice in the matter.

    In 2016 it takes the human equivalent of a fully armoured Sherman tank to take on 'NeoLib Nazis'. And that's a bad thing.
    Of course it's possible to have a reasonable conversation with people from the liberal left, as it is with conservatives, as much as their ideas are stupid and wrong. Has life got so bad for conservatives, really? It was only just over eight years ago you had two terms of a Republican president, and Republicans have held the Congress during Obama's term too. Meanwhile in Australia, NZ and the UK there are conservative governments. I really don't think you need a safe space. It's patently absurd to say conservative view points don't get a run in western society. You're having a lend.

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    International Captain Ausage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    No worries then. If you've reached that conclusion I'll call Disney and get him reinstated. All a bit of harmless fun. Vive le #freedom.
    It's always important to code things correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgey View Post
    Of course it's possible to have a reasonable conversation with people from the liberal left, as it is with conservatives, as much as their ideas are stupid and wrong. Has life got so bad for conservatives, really? It was only just over eight years ago you had two terms of a Republican president, and Republicans have held the Congress during Obama's term too. Meanwhile in Australia, NZ and the UK there are conservative governments. I really don't think you need a safe space. It's patently absurd to say conservative view points don't get a run in western society. You're having a lend.
    They've all been NeoCon governments who care more about money, war and power than they do about preservation, culture and society. Real Conservatives haven't had a look in for donkeys years.



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