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Thread: The British Politics Thread

  1. #7651
    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    But what does he mean? Like, there's no literal queue. What did you think he meant? I'm only asking because the only ways I can interpret it, he's either saying something obviously true or something of which the truth isn't yet clear.
    I think he was engaging in the same nonsensical scaremongering that we saw throughout the referendum. If anything, the way you've written your post ('there's no literal queue') makes it seem to me we aren't a million miles from agreeing on this..
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  2. #7652
    International Captain andruid's Avatar
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    Hang on. Doesn't Theresa May just need to ensure that the Tories vote as a block on Brexit
    LEARN SOMETHING NEW ABOUT AFRICA TODAY

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    I ****ing hate that everything in Glasgow has to be ****ing clouded by sectarianism and football.

  3. #7653
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    They all said "Hallo," and felt awkward and unhappy suddenly, because it was a sort of good-bye they were saying, and they didn't want to think about it.
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    I don't see how you can say "£350 million for the NHS" was a lie and "UK to the back of the queue for a trade deal with the US" wasn't to be honest.

  4. #7654
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMH View Post
    I think he was engaging in the same nonsensical scaremongering that we saw throughout the referendum. If anything, the way you've written your post ('there's no literal queue') makes it seem to me we aren't a million miles from agreeing on this..
    Maybe, but I still don't really understand the sense in which it was a lie. I guess you could say it's a bad analogy? But if so then it was only used as a way of describing the truth, or what he believes to be the truth.
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  5. #7655
    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    It's a lie because Obama (IMO) knew he was talking rubbish

  6. #7656
    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andruid View Post
    Hang on. Doesn't Theresa May just need to ensure that the Tories vote as a block on Brexit
    Small majority so in theory yes. SNP will vote en masse for no because Scotland voted 'unanimously' (sic) against Brexit. Lib Dems only have 8 MPs who will all try and block it. Labour don't have a party full of remainers though. The far left are as anti-EU as the likes of myself, if for different reasons.

    But it's all immaterial because it's not like parliament will now do their own referendum. It's a case of them putting the terms to parliament and trying to get that through.

  7. #7657
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMH View Post
    It's a lie because Obama (IMO) knew he was talking rubbish
    But that's absurd. It's entirely consistent with everything else he believes, so much so that believing anything else would be illogical with respect to everything else. It would be like me randomly deciding Cameron saying 'taxes are bad for the economy' is a lie because he doesn't really believe it.
    Last edited by Uppercut; 04-11-2016 at 04:19 AM.

  8. #7658
    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    But that's absurd. It's entirely consistent with everything else he believes, so much so that believing anything else would be illogical with respect to everything else. It would be like me randomly deciding Cameron saying 'taxes are bad for the economy' is a lie because he doesn't really believe it.
    What?

    Obama clearly doesn't believe that America would ever put Britain to the back of any metaphorical queue. To suggest it was absurd and to claim it as his opinion is bizarre.

    You say someone is lying if you think they are not telling the truth, or don't mean what they are saying

    A better example than your Cameron one (which is an economic theory rather than an actual predicted outcome) would be when he said Brexit could start world war three. That too was a lie. You can try and say it's not because it's his opinion but he was saying it knowing that it wouldn't be the case. It wasn't actually his opinion at all. Ergo, a lie. Just like Obama.

  9. #7659
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    They all said "Hallo," and felt awkward and unhappy suddenly, because it was a sort of good-bye they were saying, and they didn't want to think about it.
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    I dunno, whether someone believes something or not is to some extent immaterial when it comes to the veracity of statements of fact.

    I might say that the day after Monday is Saturday. I might honestly believe that Saturday does follow Monday, but clearly my statement would be an untruth.

    Significantly, in this regard, Obama did not say he believed that the UK would be back of the queue for a trade deal, he said that it would. He might well have believed the UK would be left in this position, but I don't see what that has to do with the truthfulness, or lack thereof, of his statement itself.
    Last edited by sledger; 04-11-2016 at 04:40 AM.

  10. #7660
    International Captain indiaholic's Avatar
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    Think he was just saying that new deals would need to be negotiated and negotiations take time. Hence the back of the queue.
    Quote Originally Posted by duffer View Post
    Heh.

  11. #7661
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIMH View Post
    What?

    Obama clearly doesn't believe that America would ever put Britain to the back of any metaphorical queue. To suggest it was absurd and to claim it as his opinion is bizarre.
    Of course he believes that. What do you think his Eastern pivot, TTIP and TPP are all about? Obama sees trade deals as a way of exercising soft power; economic blocs that trade a lot with the US are more sensitive to US interests (and vice-versa, which acts as a deterrent to America's enemies). Each successive trade deal makes it more difficult to make the next- this was pretty central to the Brexiteers' frustration with the EU. So the US would face a choice between cancelling its deals with much larger trade blocs, and making any trade deal with Britain subservient to those trade deals. Clearly it's in America's interests to do the latter and why would he expect America to go against its own interests?

  12. #7662
    International Coach StephenZA's Avatar
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    "The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they’ve found it."

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  13. #7663
    Spanish_Vicente sledger's Avatar
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    They all said "Hallo," and felt awkward and unhappy suddenly, because it was a sort of good-bye they were saying, and they didn't want to think about it.
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    That headline is absolutely disgraceful.

  14. #7664
    International Coach StephenZA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sledger View Post
    That headline is absolutely disgraceful.
    The tabloid newspapers in the UK make me rage so often....

  15. #7665
    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stphndbsn View Post
    Aye, the media carry the can for most of the ill informed views



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