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Thread: The British Politics Thread

  1. #1561
    International Regular Steulen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pothas View Post
    Yeah they were in a horrible position, each direction is fraught with difficulty.

    Think they have done very well in the short term over this but there is massive danger, they can no longer present themselves as the third option and even if it is successful and long lasting they can very easily get squeezed out as time goes by.

    Labour was never going to work, that was always fairly clear, maths did not add up.

    They could have always walked away, but it would be seen missing a massive chance, and would result in them having to fight another election that they can really not afford.
    I think it's a very clever move by the LibDems. The voting system they favour would result in coalition governments more often than not and if they can show to the electorate that it actually works that would go a long way to winning over people to the idea that FPTP is not the ideal system.

    If they mess up, of course, they're dead for the next generation or so. But this is their one and only chance to become a force, and they would have been mad not to take it.

    Judging by the press conference, there is a genuine air of excitement about the whole thing not just from the LibDems but also from David Cameron, so early signs are good.

    The real test will be when one of the issues comes up on which the LibDems have been promised the freedom to vote against Tory proposals. If the coalition then falls at the first hurdle, it's pure suicide. Let's see what LibDem whips are made of...
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  2. #1562
    Cricketer Of The Year four_or_six's Avatar
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    If Lib Dem voters don't like coalitions then they shouldn't be voting Lib Dem in the first place. And if they only wanted labour in government then they should have voted labour. They should stop being so outraged over this.

  3. #1563
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pothas View Post
    Yeah they were in a horrible position, each direction is fraught with difficulty.

    Think they have done very well in the short term over this but there is massive danger, they can no longer present themselves as the third option and even if it is successful and long lasting they can very easily get squeezed out as time goes by.
    You speak as though losing the ability to present themselves as a third option is a huge blow for the party when said ability has done SFA to improve their support at any stage of their existence. If there were any lingering beliefs that they could sell themselves to the electorate as a much-needed alternative to "the old parties", their performance in this election should really have killed the idea off.

    I don't think this is especially dangerous for the Lib Dems, simply because they have nothing to lose. They were complete nobodies before the election campaign began. The potential gains are significantly greater than the potential losses.

    Labour was never going to work, that was always fairly clear, maths did not add up.

    They could have always walked away, but it would be seen missing a massive chance, and would result in them having to fight another election that they can really not afford.
    The Tories would almost certainly have won a majority and done whatever they wanted with the country. That's why the whiny ****s texting into BBC to say how betrayed they feel are so ****ing pathetic.
    GIMH likes this.

  4. #1564
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by four_or_six View Post
    If Lib Dem voters don't like coalitions then they shouldn't be voting Lib Dem in the first place. And if they only wanted labour in government then they should have voted labour. They should stop being so outraged over this.
    Lol. That's quite nicely put.


  5. #1565
    Norwood's on Fire GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by four_or_six View Post
    If Lib Dem voters don't like coalitions then they shouldn't be voting Lib Dem in the first place. And if they only wanted labour in government then they should have voted labour. They should stop being so outraged over this.
    Game, Set, Match

    SOme of the stuff on my facebook is hilarious

    "I can't believe the Lib Dems have joined with this nasty right-wing government, I'll never vote for them again"

    DOn't know where to start tbh

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  6. #1566
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post
    Game, Set, Match

    SOme of the stuff on my facebook is hilarious

    "I can't believe the Lib Dems have joined with this nasty right-wing government, I'll never vote for them again"

    DOn't know where to start tbh
    If people didn't want the Tories in power they should be glad the Lib Dems have done a deal - they'll curb the worst of the Tories excesses and we'll see some of the Lib Dem policies being implemented.

    Scotland wouldn't have free university tuition or free healthcare for the elderly if it wasn't for the Lib Dems being in coalition with Labour from 1999-2007.

  7. #1567
    Cricketer Of The Year four_or_six's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post
    Game, Set, Match

    SOme of the stuff on my facebook is hilarious

    "I can't believe the Lib Dems have joined with this nasty right-wing government, I'll never vote for them again"

    DOn't know where to start tbh
    Ridiculous. I get so annoyed by all the anti-Tory stuff because it's so ott. I was told that anyone who votes conservative is racist.

  8. #1568
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by four_or_six View Post
    If Lib Dem voters don't like coalitions then they shouldn't be voting Lib Dem in the first place. And if they only wanted labour in government then they should have voted labour. They should stop being so outraged over this.
    I guess they voted for them thinking of them as a alternative to the labour in terms of a left wing party.
    The people did not want either the labour or tories,so i guess they voted Lib Democrats.

    And now that their intended left wing votes are helping a right wing party come to power with a different agenda,i think they have a right to be upset.

  9. #1569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cevno View Post
    I guess they voted for them thinking of them as a alternative to the labour in terms of a left wing party.
    The people did not want either the labour or tories,so i guess they voted Lib Democrats.

    And now that their intended left wing votes are helping a right wing party come to power with a different agenda,i think they have a right to be upset.
    Jesus, well maybe they should have actually found something out about the party before voting for them? You'd have to be seriously ****ing ignorant not to know that the Liberals were likely to form a coalition with one of the other two parties. Anyone so ignorant has no right to be upset.

    And they're not helping a right wing party come to power. They're preventing a right wing party from holding even more power. It's very likely that the Tories would take a majority in another election if they turned this deal down.
    Last edited by Uppercut; 12-05-2010 at 11:48 AM.

  10. #1570
    Hall of Fame Member Pothas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    You speak as though losing the ability to present themselves as a third option is a huge blow for the party when said ability has done SFA to improve their support at any stage of their existence. If there were any lingering beliefs that they could sell themselves to the electorate as a much-needed alternative to "the old parties", their performance in this election should really have killed the idea off.

    I don't think this is especially dangerous for the Lib Dems, simply because they have nothing to lose. They were complete nobodies before the election campaign began. The potential gains are significantly greater than the potential losses.
    You are right in many ways but I really donít think they will really benefit, if the coalition goes well they are in danger of getting eaten by the Tories, if it goes badly then the Labour will seen to be the only alternative.

    As for the lib dem voters being angry well I agree in some ways, this was from a practical point of view the only sensible cause of action, and I personally do not judge Clegg badly for it. Those who wanted an alternative to the left of Labour should simply never have voted for the Lib dem under Clegg, he was never that politician.

    However an awful lot of Lib dems, especially the older generation who were around during the Thatcher years are understandably deeply unhappy at working with the Conservatives and I do not blame for that, even it is emotional rather than practical.

  11. #1571
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Jesus, well maybe they should have actually found something out about the party before voting for them? You'd have to be seriously ****ing ignorant not to know that the Liberals were likely to form a coalition with one of the other two parties. Anyone so ignorant has no right to be upset.
    .
    But then if somebody did not want either the Labour or Tories in power,what should he have done?Specially if his/her leaning was towards the left.

    Should such a person then not have voted for anyone and sat on his hands watching one of the big parties get a majority?
    He/She has a right to get upset that the promises that were made by the party at the time of voting are kept or not.

    Liberal Democrats were the only left wing alternative to the Labour.And when people are voting not on national basis ,a lot can depend on the identity of their M.P'S ,their policies and regional factors.

    And they're not helping a right wing party come to power. They're preventing a right wing party from holding even more power. It's very likely that the Tories would take a majority in another election if they turned this deal down
    That is all guesswork at this point.
    To stop a right wing party it always better to work with a left wing party rather than just accept that u could stop 20 % of their agenda by collaborating with them.
    I think their voters would have wanted them to not align themselves with any party and if they do preferrably with the labour, You associate oppurtunism with small parties ,not with those that have a larger ambition to one day lead alone
    Here in India the main left parties do not even see eye to eye with the right.

    Though having said that, the core Liberal democrats voters who were not only for this election should not be that peeved as they are getting a chance at a system in exchange by crossing sides which will make them a larger player.

  12. #1572
    Hall of Fame Member Cevno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pothas View Post

    As for the lib dem voters being angry well I agree in some ways, this was from a practical point of view the only sensible cause of action, and I personally do not judge Clegg badly for it. Those who wanted an alternative to the left of Labour should simply never have voted for the Lib dem under Clegg, he was never that politician.
    I guess they did not have any other alternative.

  13. #1573
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pothas View Post
    However an awful lot of Lib dems, especially the older generation who were around during the Thatcher years are understandably deeply unhappy at working with the Conservatives and I do not blame for that, even it is emotional rather than practical.
    I don't have any time for such people at all. No one has the right to criticise a course of action unless they can come up with a viable alternative.

  14. #1574
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    Quote Originally Posted by James90 View Post
    Was more a reference to Labour (and I think the Lib Dems also) vowing to ban the page three girl.
    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    Yeah that's Harriet Harman. Worst ****ing person.

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  15. #1575
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    Either David Cameron and Nick Clegg are showing an amazing amount of naivety or they're potential dictators in the making. Under the Lib Dem-Tory plan, an "enhanced majority" of 55 per cent of MPs will be required to trigger a dissolution.

    Who gave Cameron and Clegg the right to change the constitution? Jim Callaghan was voted out of office when he lost a no confidence vote of 50% + 1 vote in the House of Commons. I don't see why Cameron and Clegg should just change the rules to make their position in parliament more secure. Hey guys, news flash - it's up to parliament to decide when you go, not the Cabinet!

    And if they railroad it thru the Commons, I'm sure the Lords is going to stand up to this measure. Not the best of starts by the new Coalition. That's the sort of tinkering with the constitution that less favourable elements in the Third World engage in....

    And now the new Coalition wants to cut the Olympic budget!

    BBC News - London 2012 Olympics not protected from budget cuts

    This is AFTER construction started a long time ago....

    This won't please the IOC, and it won't please FIFA, considering England are mounting a bid for 2018. There seems to be a move for action, but action without thinking can have disastrous consequences. The Coalition govt is jsut days old, and they're behaving like this!

    Sorry guys, I can't be positive about Cameron and Clegg, when they seem to be behaving more like Morecambe and Wise.



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