Should Smith have been allowed a runner?

[Son Of Coco]

Originally Posted by DIRK-NANNES

Not sure if you're serious or not If so, you might have missed the point.

[Isura]

The runner is one the dumbest rules in cricket. You can't run, you can't bat. As simple as that. It might have made sense when cricket was a leisurely gentlemen's game. But it has no place in international cricket.

[Smudge]

Originally Posted by zaremba

in fact it's quite possible to draw the conclusion that he did so deliberately

You can't be serious! Why on earth would a batsman deliberately run towards a collision rather than complete a run? That makes utterly no sense. So, no, it's not "quite possible" to draw such a conclusion - unless you're, say, Scaly.

[zaremba]

Originally Posted by Voltman

You can't be serious! Why on earth would a batsman deliberately run towards a collision rather than complete a run? That makes utterly no sense. So, no, it's not "quite possible" to draw such a conclusion - unless you're, say, Scaly.

It makes sense for a batsman who realises that he's not going to make it to safety. If you can't get home, get in the fielder's way. Ever seen a batsman deliberately get in the way of the throw? Same sort of thing. Elliott knew that there was a pretty high chance of being run out, and his change of direction was an act of desperation.

Anyhow even if I'm wrong about that (and I don't expect many of the Kiwis here to agree with me), the fact remains that the bowler has the right of way, and it's the batsman's job to get out of the road. So the batsman has little cause for complaint if there's a collision.

[DIRK-NANNES]

Originally Posted by Son Of Coco

Not sure if you're serious or not If so, you might have missed the point.

I was just itching to use that animation

[Son Of Coco]

Originally Posted by DIRK-NANNES

I was just itching to use that animation

That's fair enough!

[Son Of Coco]

Originally Posted by zaremba

It makes sense for a batsman who realises that he's not going to make it to safety. If you can't get home, get in the fielder's way. Ever seen a batsman deliberately get in the way of the throw? Same sort of thing. Elliott knew that there was a pretty high chance of being run out, and his change of direction was an act of desperation.

Anyhow even if I'm wrong about that (and I don't expect many of the Kiwis here to agree with me), the fact remains that the bowler has the right of way, and it's the batsman's job to get out of the road. So the batsman has little cause for complaint if there's a collision.

If I remember it correctly from the replay the other day the batsman tried to avoid the players coming in for the ball and the bowler. Missed a couple but not all of them.

If Elliott can think quick enough to take off for a run, sum up the situation and assume that he won't make it and the fielder will hit the stumps, and then engineer a collison he's a genius.

[zaremba]

Originally Posted by Son Of Coco

If I remember it correctly from the replay the other day the batsman tried to avoid the players coming in for the ball and the bowler. Missed a couple but not all of them.

If Elliott can think quick enough to take off for a run, sum up the situation and assume that he won't make it and the fielder will hit the stumps, and then engineer a collison he's a genius.

I couldn't find the clip when I looked for it yesterday but my recollection is different. Perhaps someone will dig it out for us - and if it shows I'm wrong then I will eat a big fat slice of humble pie (being wrong about matters cricketing is a constant state of being for me ).

I think you underestimate the ability of batsmen to "sum up the situation" almost instantaneously. When the bowler is delivering the ball the batsman often has much less than a second in which to assess the flight of the ball, to decide on a stroke and to execute it; they then are often able to decide in a split second whether to take a run once they've hit the ball. It probably takes something in the order of 3 seconds to complete a run, and a batsman who's not going to make it can be fully aware of that fact at a pretty early stage. That's why batsmen change direction to get in the way of the throw, which happens all the time. As for engineering a collision, it's not rocket science - you just aim for the area where the ball and/or fielder is heading. It doesn't take a genius.

[Son Of Coco]

Originally Posted by zaremba

I couldn't find the clip when I looked for it yesterday but my recollection is different. Perhaps someone will dig it out for us - and if it shows I'm wrong then I will eat a big fat slice of humble pie (being wrong about matters cricketing is a constant state of being for me ).

I think you underestimate the ability of batsmen to "sum up the situation" almost instantaneously. When the bowler is delivering the ball the batsman often has much less than a second in which to assess the flight of the ball, to decide on a stroke and to execute it; they then are often able to decide in a split second whether to take a run once they've hit the ball. It probably takes something in the order of 3 seconds to complete a run, and a batsman who's not going to make it can be fully aware of that fact at a pretty early stage. That's why batsmen change direction to get in the way of the throw, which happens all the time. As for engineering a collision, it's not rocket science - you just aim for the area where the ball and/or fielder is heading. It doesn't take a genius.

It'd be very unusual for a batsman to back himself for the collision rather than trying to run the line of the throw. If he'd have stayed upright then the fielder would have been shying at the stumps while slightly off balance rather than lobbing it back over the stumps at the bowler's end.

When I saw the video the other night nothing suggested to me that he'd tried to run into anyone.

[zaremba]

I found it

It shows that Elliott had much less time to react than I'd remembered.

Only the bowler is involved - the other fielders aren't really involved.

Elliott doesn't change direction, but it's fair to say that he does set off at a strange angle across the bowler's path and with the result that he gets between the bowler and the ball.

I'm still not 100% convinced, but I admit, it doesn't look particularly deliberate.

[contemplates humble pie]

[Son Of Coco]

Originally Posted by zaremba

I found it

It shows that Elliott had much less time to react than I'd remembered.

Only the bowler is involved - the other fielders aren't really involved.

Elliott doesn't change direction, but it's fair to say that he does set off at a strange angle across the bowler's path and with the result that he gets between the bowler and the ball.

I'm still not 100% convinced, but I admit, it doesn't look particularly deliberate.

[contemplates humble pie]

Great, I was looking for it to watch it again too.

What I thought was another fielder the other night at first glance is the other NZ batsman. He doesn't set off at a strange angle, but it's evident he sees Sidebottom coming and is limited to how wide he can go due to the other batsman coming through. His only other option is to go the other side of Sidebottom and run down the middle of the pitch. Given it would take him changing angle completely as well as going against the batsman's first instinct to get off the pitch that was never going to happen.

The commentators seem fairly certain it wasn't a great thing to do.

[Uppercut]

Remember now why I thought England were completely in the wrong after the incident.

Also, Elliot probably wouldn't have been out if the collision hadn't occured- Sidebottom still had to hit the stumps, there was no one there to break them if he missed.

[zaremba]

Originally Posted by Uppercut

Remember now why I thought England were completely in the wrong after the incident.

Also, Elliot probably wouldn't have been out if the collision hadn't occured- Sidebottom still had to hit the stumps, there was no one there to break them if he missed.

This is the central impossibility at the heart of your argument

[age_master]

I have seen other international batsmen get runners for lesser reasons.

[Jono]

Having watched that footage again, I don't think you can blame Elliot one bit.

a) He did nothing wrong
b) There was no guarantee he would have been out had he not collided with Sidebottom.

But what I will always remember from that incident is Benson putting his arms around Collingwood.