*Official* Group B Discussion - South Africa, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, England

[Days of Grace]

Originally Posted by Athlai

Reckon we should keep our current openers and when Ryder comes back he can have the number 3 spot.

Really hope Guppy secures his spot as opener.

Okay, I can go along with that, since Guptill is an opener by trade, and Ryder may have trouble against the new ball.

I think your no.3 should always be an attacking, techically player. The prime example is Ricky Ponting.

However, there is an argument still for Ryder/McCullum to open: the right-left combination.

[Athlai]

Originally Posted by Days of Grace

Okay, I can go along with that, since Guptill is an opener by trade, and Ryder may have trouble against the new ball.

I think your no.3 should always be an attacking, techically player. The prime example is Ricky Ponting.

However, there is an argument still for Ryder/McCullum to open: the right-left combination.

Yeah the left-right combination would be the best reason for keeping it.

[Athlai]

Originally Posted by pup11

Completely agree with that, I think that has been one of the problem area's for the Black caps in recent times, they have lacked a finisher to put finishing touches to platform provided by the top order.

McCullum was one of the best finishers in the game when New Zealand think-tank decided to make him open, he has played a few decent knocks opening the innings, but he would be much better batting in middle-order and would also serve his team a lot better doing that.

Also believe its worth giving Broom a consistent run at no.3, because from what I have seen he seems to be a pretty good batsman, but down at no. 6 or 7 he hasn't been able to play freely, allowing him to bat at no.3 would give him much more freedom to play his natural game.

Guptill
Ryder/McCullum
Broom
Taylor
Elliott
McCullum/Ryder
Franklin
Vettori
Mills
Tuffey
Bond

Could fly, problems being Broom's unknown quanitity. McMillan near the end of his career was that great finisher and Baz/Ryder could probably replicate him with some success.

[pup11]

Originally Posted by Athlai

Guptill
Ryder/McCullum
Broom
Taylor
Elliott
McCullum/Ryder
Franklin
Vettori
Mills
Tuffey
Bond

Could fly, problems being Broom's unknown quanitity. McMillan near the end of his career was that great finisher and Baz/Ryder could probably replicate him with some success.

Would definitely not move Ryder down the order, I think he is the sort of bloke who can take the attack to opposition and giving initial impetus to the innings, and not only that he seems to more comfortable dealing in boundaries, which is something he would find difficult to achieve while batting in the middle order.

McCullum is someone who has played that role pretty well in the past, so he should be pretty comfortable doing the same all over again.

[Faisal1985]

Ma goodness............look at this thread.....its Kiwis taking over the world here.............HAHA....good luck mates.

[Bouncer]

^^ let them have little fun....one of my memory of 99WC was in semi final in last 3 overs when Ijaz and saeed were toying with kiwi bowlers...Martin Crow said " This cant be happening Jeez, twice in Semis....Twice to Pak.."

[Faisal1985]

Originally Posted by Bouncer

^^ let them have little fun....one of my memory of 99WC was in semi final in last 3 overs when Ijaz and saeed were toying with kiwi bowlers...Martin Crow said " This cant be happening Jeez, twice in Semis....Twice to Pak.."

I know..............watched that Semi live....i wouldn't mind winning against the kiwis with slight struggle.....but i would certainly want to see a Pak thrashing of Aussies in the final....

[Zinzan]

Originally Posted by Polo23

Broom will rightfully continue to play, and will eventually prove you wrong. Mark my words.

Does this mean if he does actually get to a 50 after about 20 innings you'll claim you were right all along ?

[Bahnz]

Elliot's injured. Hurt his thumb when he got hit on the hand in the last ODI. Too early yet to know whether he'll be available to play in the semi or not, but at the very least it seems unlikely that he'll be bowling.

[Zinzan]

Originally Posted by Athlai

He didn't adopt it. Moles is making him do it. And its about building partnerships, not McCullum scoring hundreds.

What a load a tripe, where to you get your facts from, the telephone book?....Mole's ain't an in your face type of coach for a start & we all know McCullum is a strong personality & is his own man. There's no way Mole's determines the way McCullum generally plays. Some helpful advise at times ...maybe, but McCullum still makes his own decisions.

If anyone is likely to have a bigger influence than Moles, it's Vettori.

At times you really do say things that just ain't so, yet state it with such apparent authority, particularly when you've been called out on argument & presumably do it to over-compensate, I'm not sure. Classic example here, T Henry correctly points out that he when McCullum scores more slowly he doesn't actually score more runs, so to counter that you claim "Mole is making him do it"...

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Bahnz

Elliot's injured. Hurt his thumb when he got hit on the hand in the last ODI. Too early yet to know whether he'll be available to play in the semi or not, but at the very least it seems unlikely that he'll be bowling.

Damn, anyone else playing county cricket? Hamish Marshall

[thierry henry]

Originally Posted by Athlai

There is some merit in McCullum being the foil to players like Ryder, Guptill and Taylor playing their strokes. Partnerships build and then those players come in, in non pressure situations with runs on the board.

There cannot possibly be merit to it UNLESS MCCULLUM IS LIKELY TO SCORE MORE RUNS THAN HE WOULD IF HE ATTACKED.

Otherwise there cannot possibly be any merit to it.

Partnerships do not build without runs.

[thierry henry]

I'm sorry if I'm coming off condescending with the BIG LETTERS and 1 + 1=2 type logic, but it still seems as though you have this mindset that batting more slowly is the same as scoring more runs.

[Flem274*]

170/2 after 30 tactic is good for a top order of How, Astle, Fleming or something. When you have McCullum and Ryder opening though it seems a bit pointless.

Tactics should lend themselves to the players you have. We have to wrong opening partnership to play defensively.

McCullum also imo doesn't have the defensive technique yet to play that role. Would be great if he developed one but it hasn't happened yet.

[_Ed_]

So we're going into our semi against Pakistan in good form, and I believe we can go all the way.

This gives me an uneasy feeling of deja vu.