*Official* Group B Discussion - South Africa, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, England

[straw man]

PS as for last nights game. I dont blame them for playing Hopkins. You simply cant play only 5 batsman. He had to play and its not his fault there were no other batting options in the squad. Thats a selectorial **** up.

You also cant simply say Hopkins is rubbish because of his limited and sporadic chances record. If Broom gets that luxury then check out Hopkins first class and ODD record over the last couple of seasons.

I can say it and I will say it: Hopkins is rubbish. He has looked a rubbish batsman every time he has played for NZ and unfortunately gets the chance to prove it repeatedly . I've heard he's a nice guy - perhaps that's why Vettori picked him?

My pick for last night was Diamanti - Patel weakened the batting too much in an already questionable lower order. Would generally back Diamanti closing his eyes and swinging to score more runs than Hopkins by pure random chance. Of course it would have been someone else if the proper reserves had been selected for the tour.

PS: For your team, reckon Styris should be 3 and Taylor 4 - don't like Taylor being any higher than that. Also McCullum is never going to not open again due to his leadership spot in the team, so we may as well stop wishing it would happen. Agree with Athlai that Ryder should be the one moved down the order where he's not exposed to the new ball. Only problem is it leaves too many similar right hand bats at the top.

[straw man]

Also, with Oram's injury I assume he'll be out for the duration of the tournament (or at least the two more matches NZ play). I'm hoping like hell they organised as soon as it happened to get someone from NZ over there in time for the next match.

[GGG]

to late to fly N McCullum in for Oram?

[James]

to late to fly N McCullum in for Oram?

Don't mean Styris for Oram?

[Polo23]

As others have said...where the f**k is the backup batsman on this tour? Though in saying that I have to think regardless if Oram was fit or not we still would have lost. Our top order just sucked, again.

On the bright side I thought Bond's second and 3rd spells were really good. Bowled low 140's consistently and cranked it up to 145 every now and then, doesn't look like he's lost any pace at all from 2007. Pretty unlucky not to have 3 or 4 wickets to be honest. Tuffey was decent too, on a seaming track (Wanderers) I think the combination of Mills, Bond and Tuffey will be a good one and I couldn't think of a better place to play the Lankans!

[Flem274*]

Lol Guptill bowling.

We have some very wierd reserves. Some of the better List A players got left at home in favour of a reserve wicketkeeper and a bits and pieces allrounder.

15 man squad right? So for 12-13-14-15 it should really have been a batsman, an allrounder, another spinner and either a bowler or a batsman to finish.

We have three "allrounders" (commas for Diamanti) in Oram, Elliott and Diamanti, plus Ryder and Vettori to an extent. Overkill. Two wicketkeepers, several thousand bowlers. Very odd.

Comforting thing is at least they have the bowling right. Bond, Mills, Vettori, Tuffey, Butler, Patel, Oram is fine with me as our bowling options.

Styris should probably over there and even if the selectors think he's past it (trapol Styris is no saviour of NZC, lets not get too carried away ) then they should at least have some form of batsman there. Considering 1-5 is set in concrete they need a lower order finisher, and I spose Hopkins has done that for Otago and Auckland in the past, but he's not very good at it. Broom's selection as a finisher is almost as dumb as Flynns selection as a finisher. I'm off to cricinfo to find some 5-6-7 types. Have a feeling I'm about to find a lot of allrounders. I'll post each teams lower order (going to exclude a lot of wicket-keepers like Bevan Griggs on the basis they won't do much anyway)

CD

Timothy Weston | New Zealand Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Doug Bracewell | New Zealand Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

So yeah, not the greatest for CD...

ND

Kane Williamson | New Zealand Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Peter McGlashan | New Zealand Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Two pretty good players there

Wellington

James Franklin | New Zealand Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Harry Boam | New Zealand Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Auckz

Anaru Kitchen | New Zealand Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Hopkins as well

Canterbury

Corey Anderson | New Zealand Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Kruger van Wyk | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

van Wyk is fairly epic, but unqualified.

Otago

They used Mascarenhas iirc as their finisher type. Someone else to confirm?

[Days of Grace]

On the bright side I thought Bond's second and 3rd spells were really good. Bowled low 140's consistently and cranked it up to 145 every now and then, doesn't look like he's lost any pace at all from 2007. Pretty unlucky not to have 3 or 4 wickets to be honest. Tuffey was decent too, on a seaming track (Wanderers) I think the combination of Mills, Bond and Tuffey will be a good one and I couldn't think of a better place to play the Lankans!

I agree on Bond. Very heartening. But has he lost the ability to bowl the yorker, or hasn't he bothered to use it yet? I would have thought with 30 runs to win and 5 wickets in hand, he may have tried it with nothing to lose?

Not sure about Tuffey anymore. The commentators were criticising him for a lack of pace and I would agree with them except I suspect (and hope!) that he was just taking pace off the ball on slow wicket. De Villiers made him look like cannon fodder on occasion, though. If Tuffey is selected for the next game, hopefully we will see more balls around the 135km/h area with a semblance of carry.

I also worry about Mills coming back for his second and third spells. Apart from Bond, who do we have to bowl at the death again?

[Days of Grace]

Meanwhile, Franklin's just cracked a century to go with his 5-fer at Bristol.

[Athlai]

CD

Timothy Weston | New Zealand Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Doug Bracewell | New Zealand Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

So yeah, not the greatest for CD...

ND

Kane Williamson | New Zealand Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Peter McGlashan | New Zealand Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Two pretty good players there

Wellington

James Franklin | New Zealand Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Harry Boam | New Zealand Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Auckz

Anaru Kitchen | New Zealand Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Hopkins as well

Canterbury

Corey Anderson | New Zealand Cricket | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

Kruger van Wyk | Cricket Players and Officials | Cricinfo.com

van Wyk is fairly epic, but unqualified.

Otago

They used Mascarenhas iirc as their finisher type. Someone else to confirm?

08/08 State Shield

CD
Griggs - 185 @ 20.55
Weston - 102 @ 25.50
Bracewell - 87 @ 14.50

ND
Williamson - 320 @ 45.71
McGlashan - 272 @ 45.33
Yovich - 157 @ 52.33

Wellington

Franklin - 306 @ 51 (FP Trophy 224 @ 44.80)
Nevin - 174 @ 29
Woodcock - 130 @ 18.57

Auckland

Hopkins - 183 @ 22.87
Nicol - 110 @ 36.66
Croft - 209 @ 26.12
Kitchen - 162 @ 32.40

Canterbury

Stewart - 376 @ 41.77
Anderson - 116 @ 23.20
van Wyk - 96 @ 32
Harris - 105 @ 35

Otago

Broom - 148 @ 29.60
N McCullum - 205 @ 29.28
Mascarenhas - 178 @ 44.50

[Athlai]

ND
Williamson - 320 @ 45.71
McGlashan - 272 @ 45.33

Wellington

Franklin - 306 @ 51 (FP Trophy 224 @ 44.80)

Canterbury

Stewart - 376 @ 41.77

The four stand outs so lets see how they went in the T20 form of the game to see how well they can slog.

Franklin 209 @ 69.66
McGlashan 161 @ 26.83
Stewart 147 @ 21
Williamson 57 @ 14.25

Williamson may be able to solve this problem in a couple seasons but till then I can't see why we keep ignoring Franklin, he should take over from Oram in both forms of the game (though McCullum should bat 6 in Tests even with Oram).

[GGG]

Don't mean Styris for Oram?

Either, but with N McCullums form with the ball and Styris lack of game time, I would go with N McCullum.

[straw man]

Either, but with N McCullums form with the ball and Styris lack of game time, I would go with N McCullum.

Exacty, it's that problem that Styris has had in the last little while. The selectors don't pick him so he doesn't get matchplay, and that in turn makes him harder to pick again. Who knows how much cricket Styris is playing at the moment. At least N McCullum has been on A-tours.

That said, like it or not Patel is the second spinner in this side so I don't see the point in sending N McCullum over there. Would choose Franklin TBH, as a number 7 bat who can bowl 3-4 overs. There's the added advantage that the UK is in a similar time zone to South Africa so he wouldn't take as long to adjust. We're playing Sri Lanka on Sunday night after all.

But I have a suspicion that they won't send anyone at all and will hope Oram comes right.

[Howsie]

Shannon Stewart would be a very good 6-7 for New Zealand. He really killed it last season, I remember him scoring a 50 odd ball 80 not out against the Lions.

[straw man]

Shannon Stewart would be a very good 6-7 for New Zealand. He really killed it last season, I remember him scoring a 50 odd ball 80 not out against the Lions.

This is true - I remember Bond talking him up last season too.

That number 6 spot is a problem. Broom will get the next two matches no doubt, but if fails then for the next OD series someone else like Stewart could get a chance. Personally, half think that Ryder should go down to 6. There he won't be exposed to new ball and he's flexible enough to bat either as a proper batsman (when we're 80/4 after 15 overs) or to hit out and score quickly. But would leave number 3 vacant for who, Flynn? How?

[Athlai]

Elliott at 3 could happen maybe or even Taylor.
Guppy
McCullum
Elliott/Taylor
Taylor/Elliott
Ryder
Broom
Franklin
Vettori
Mills
Tuffey
Bond