*Official* Group B Discussion - South Africa, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, England

[Briony]

Smith badly misread the pitch; Kumar didn't. The last five games had been decided by the team batting first. The pitch slowed up and became harder to bat under lights. It made it easier for SL's spinners. The more talented team won but Smith compounded the situation by inserting them on a pitch devoid of grass. It's folly to think that a sub-continent team always struggles on SA pitches. According to them the IPL experience has made them very familiar with SA pitches and they no longer fear them. And SA was the team without any recent form. SL is much more match-hardened. If Smith continues to **** up at the toss it's time for them to look elsewhere. Maybe someone with a bit of grey matter won't go astray.

SA's batsmen struggled with Mendis and their batting looks light on with Boucher coming in so high up.

[Raghav]

I guess Merwe should have batted high up the order

[Briony]

Originally Posted by Raghav

I guess Merwe should have batted high up the order

Their batting looks a bit suspect on paper. They have a keeper coming in at #6 followed by a lot of makeshift type batsmen.

Look at Australia. White come in at #8 but can easily go up the order and make a ton. Likewise our fill in keeper plucked out of nowhere can suddently make a ton. SA seems to lack depth in its batting with the replacement for the ageing Gibbs struggling to get bat on ball.

[Prince EWS]

Originally Posted by Briony

Look at Australia. White come in at #8

Nah.

[aussie]

Dont see how a 7-10 of Morkel/VDM/Botha/Parnell is makeshift. Thats the best lower-order in ODI cricket.

[Raghav]

These lines should be on NZ dressing room!!!


1. Oram needs to bat between Vettori and the bowlers because runs are now considered a bonus.

2. McCullum might even find bringing the team home in the final 10 overs rather than starting them off is the variety his game needs.

3. Perhaps this tournament will tell if McCullum is on the verge of burnout or simply suffering from bad form and bad advice.

4. McCullum's place is not under threat but his reputation has taken a hit during the past couple of months.

5. Oram's bowling remains as methodical as a Swiss clock.

6. Oram's batting average is just 24.4 after 132 games and he is a worse starter than pea soup.

7. Jacob Oram, Brendon McCullum and coach Andy Moles can ill afford to come home with their tails between their legs.

[Uppercut]

Originally Posted by Jono

No it doesn't. It counts as being outplayed by a team who isn't too far behind them in quality and experience.

This. Sri Lanka are properly awesome. Dilshan, Jayasuriya, Sangakarra, Jayawardene, Samaraweera in the top order; Malinga, Kulasekara, Murali and Mendis in the attack. Can no one else see how bloody good that lineup actually is?

[Briony]

Originally Posted by aussie

Dont see how a 7-10 of Morkel/VDM/Botha/Parnell is makeshift. Thats the best lower-order in ODI cricket.

Morkel never seems to make a fifty, Parnell's never batted at international level. Botha is slow and hasn't really got a big score to his name, while VDM seems hit and miss and closes his eyes half the time while playing shots.

[Polo23]

Originally Posted by Uppercut

This. Sri Lanka are properly awesome. Dilshan, Jayasuriya, Sangakarra, Jayawardene, Samaraweera in the top order; Malinga, Kulasekara, Murali and Mendis in the attack. Can no one else see how bloody good that lineup actually is?

It is a very good team...though, perhaps not quite as good as you think it is. Jayasuriya is past it for mine and the jury is still out on Samaraweera as an ODI player. Lanka's main weakness is in the middle order, looks a little suspect to me. Will be tough to beat though if the top order continues to fire.

[Stapel]

Originally Posted by Jungle Jumbo

After seeing Smith and JP have no answer to Mendis, I am completely confident of Matt Prior, Owais Shah and Paul Collingwood smashing him everywhere on Friday...

[Athlai]

Originally Posted by Uppercut

This. Sri Lanka are properly awesome. Dilshan, Jayasuriya, Sangakarra, Jayawardene, Samaraweera in the top order; Malinga, Kulasekara, Murali and Mendis in the attack. Can no one else see how bloody good that lineup actually is?

Dilshan is up there, Jayasuriya is winding down, Sanga and Jayawardene are both solid but better suited to Tests, Samaraweera is having a good year but not a great ODI bat.
Then after that top 5 there is very very little to come, Mathews has potential.
Malinga (and I'm his biggest fan) has been quite mediocre lately. Kulasekara is solid.
Mendis and Murali are the best spin bowling combo in the world by a long way.

So one-two troublesome bowling spots and a weak lower order.

[Raghav]

McCullum, Guptill should switch batting spots - Martin Crowe

I got a person who supports my idea of McCullum droping down the order and Guptil to open with Ryder ..


Some excerpts from that article:

"I'd love to see Brendon McCullum drop down to number six or seven and Guptill come up and join Jesse Ryder," Crowe told. "I think those guys are in reasonable form and we know that McCullum isn't.

"With McCullum coming down the order, if he's got a target in his sight it will help his focus. He struggles to set up innings and he has done for a while now."

"I'd also bring (Neil) Broom, who has shown some form in the warm-up games, up to four or five to join (Grant) Elliott, and (Ross) Taylor would go into number three, where I think he could do some real damage in the first few overs."

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by Raghav

McCullum, Guptill should switch batting spots - Martin Crowe

I got a person who supports my idea of McCullum droping down the order and Guptil to open with Ryder ..

"

I think Moles is a poor coach. McCullum needs to be directed to play his shots and have a free license. Instead he has really reined himself in this year. His SR is the lowest of the top 5 NZ batsman this year according to a post someone else made. He bats with too much responsibility and he doesn't have the technical game to play conservatively.
I am ok with him opening but only if he goes back to the original McCullum who scores QUICKLY.

In today's Dominion Post Millmow made a comment about Moles saying that the team has not progressed under his management so I am pleased some attention is being directed towards him.

Can't wait until tomorrows game.

[Uppercut]

Originally Posted by Athlai

Dilshan is up there, Jayasuriya is winding down, Sanga and Jayawardene are both solid but better suited to Tests, Samaraweera is having a good year but not a great ODI bat.
Then after that top 5 there is very very little to come, Mathews has potential.
Malinga (and I'm his biggest fan) has been quite mediocre lately. Kulasekara is solid.
Mendis and Murali are the best spin bowling combo in the world by a long way.

So one-two troublesome bowling spots and a weak lower order.

No one's saying they're all the greatest players in the world, but it's nine players out of a team of eleven with no question marks over their place whatsoever. Ten if you count Mathews.

Apart from South Africa, all the other teams look a bit patchy to me. Australia have players like Tim Paine, Michael Clarke and Nathan Bracken who no one's convinced about at the moment. India have Rahul Dravid, RP Singh, Ashish Nehra; England have an entire batting lineup of weak links, New Zealand have an awful lot of inexperienced players and Pakistan are a bit mercurial.

Sri Lanka have nine or ten players who could all very easily contribute heavily to a victory. That's more than any other team, apart from the one they've already beaten.

[popepouri]

Originally Posted by Briony

Morkel never seems to make a fifty,

If the top order is doing its job like they were against Australia, then he shouldn't be given the chances to make a fifty, which has been few and far between. I wouldn't play him though unless he's above Boucher because he plays better when he's able to build an innings. His first class record is a testament to that. They're wasting his abilities at 7and given his poor form with the ball as first change, I'd be inclined to drop him and play the extra seamer.

Parnell's never batted at international level.

Still has great potential with the bat.

Botha is slow...

Fair assessment. He is a conservative batsmen. Nevertheless, a strike rate of 85 at an average of 20 is not bad. I agree with the others that VDM should be ahead of him, maybe Parnell too.

...hasn't really got a big score to his name,

Same as Morkel.

while VDM seems hit and miss and closes his eyes half the time while playing shots.

and it's proven rather effective. From domestic performances, he can take the game away from the opposition and he's batted consistently above 7, sometimes as high as 3.

The middle-lower order is fantastic, maybe too good and it's compromised that bowling a bit especially in the first change option. Kallis isn't bowling like he used to and Albie has been extremely poor. I don't think SA will drop the spinners because of their effectiveness in the middle overs, so if they're going to make changes, it would probably be Albie who'll get the chop.