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Thread: *Official* Group A Discussion - Pakistan, West Indies, Australia, India

  1. #796
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by metallics2006 View Post
    He is gonna slap ya foshur.
    Maybe it's time to start producing and marketing Harbhajan Singh action figures or dolls with the recoil slap action?
    "Talent is nothing without opportunity"
    "You're not remembered for aiming at the target, but hitting it"

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  2. #797
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    Dropping Harbhajan- That's too tough a call to take, especially if they're going into the semis of the Champions Trophy. While statistics may not back him, he may provide more in terms of intangibles- particularly experience, which can translate into knowledge for the other spinners. Already the pacers are handicapped because of Zaheer's absence. Of course, the next time the Indians play a needless, useless ODI tournament (Kitply, Wealthsurance, all those obscure sponsors), he can sit out of it, with Ishant.

    Now a little thought is required here. Every other team has at least three multi-skilled players. Not quite the genuine all-rounder by definition, but each of these teams has got enough players who can be at least decent at both skills. We can identify two types in them-
    • Type A: Watson, Hopes, Cameron White, Luke Wright, Jacob Oram, Shoaib Malik, Albie Morkel, Roelof van der Merwe, Sanath, Matthews, Gayle
    • Type B: Johnson, Lee, Hauritz, Swann, Broad, Vettori, Franklin, Mills, Afridi, Rana Naved, Botha, Parnell (?), Kulasekara, Thushara, Bravo
    You can guess what each type is. Some may be swapped. Kallis and Flintoff may be left out because they're full-fledged all-rounders who can go solo, while these operate in groups. I've also left out Type C, which includes the wicketkeepers.

    Now India need to identify some players who can go the distance, for either type. We've seen the Indians lack bowling strength when they play seven batsmen, and with five bowlers, the batting solidity is missing. Put two together, and they need multi-skilled players, and more than one. Genuine all-rounders are very hard to come by, so this is the next best. They need to groom a pool, to get one of Type A and two of Type B, to maintain balance in the team. More importantly, they need to find players who can adapt to this properly, so that they don't compromise on their main skill. Who can do the multiple role of either type for India?

  3. #798
    Banned Pratters's Avatar
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    Bringing in RP for Harbhajan doesn't look that bad an option though it does mean a longer tail.

  4. #799
    International Coach Pothas's Avatar
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    Greatly vexed by the rain, finally had a day when work, univeristy or other stufff did not intefere with the match and two teams I always enjoy watching. Just want to see a bit of Sachin before this tournament ends.


  5. #800
    Hall of Fame Member Johnners's Avatar
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    Stupid rain
    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Mitch Johnson is ****ing awesome for cricket.
    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    Ponting's ability to ton up in the first innings of a series should not be understated. So much pressure, so important. What a great!

  6. #801
    Hall of Fame Member Johnners's Avatar
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    Speaking hypothetically here, but if India's match v WI is also rained out, yet Australia/Pakistan goes ahead fine, is there any chance the India v WI match would be replayed? Just seems a little harsh that with no reserve days, a team could hypothetically be knocked out because they had less opportunity to score more points than the opposition due to circumstances beyond their control.

  7. #802
    Virat Kohli (c) Jono's Avatar
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    LOL. Pakistan to be bowled out for 150 to spite us.
    "I am very happy and it will allow me to have lot more rice."

    Eoin Morgan on being given a rice cooker for being Man of the Match in a Dhaka Premier Division game.

  8. #803
    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
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    Bloody rain. With India playing 5 bowlers we were in an awesome position.
    Rest In Peace Craigos
    2003-2012

  9. #804
    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    Things can change very quickly, this one is far from in the bag.
    I'm good

  10. #805
    International Debutant Black_Warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun View Post
    Now a little thought is required here. Every other team has at least three multi-skilled players. Not quite the genuine all-rounder by definition, but each of these teams has got enough players who can be at least decent at both skills. We can identify two types in them-
    • Type A: Watson, Hopes, Cameron White, Luke Wright, Jacob Oram, Shoaib Malik, Albie Morkel, Roelof van der Merwe, Sanath, Matthews, Gayle
    • Type B: Johnson, Lee, Hauritz, Swann, Broad, Vettori, Franklin, Mills, Afridi, Rana Naved, Botha, Parnell (?), Kulasekara, Thushara, Bravo
    You can guess what each type is. Some may be swapped. Kallis and Flintoff may be left out because they're full-fledged all-rounders who can go solo, while these operate in groups. I've also left out Type C, which includes the wicketkeepers.

    Now India need to identify some players who can go the distance, for either type. We've seen the Indians lack bowling strength when they play seven batsmen, and with five bowlers, the batting solidity is missing. Put two together, and they need multi-skilled players, and more than one. Genuine all-rounders are very hard to come by, so this is the next best. They need to groom a pool, to get one of Type A and two of Type B, to maintain balance in the team. More importantly, they need to find players who can adapt to this properly, so that they don't compromise on their main skill. Who can do the multiple role of either type for India?
    India does have the Pathan brothers...who can fit in either of the groups you mention...Sehwag can bowl a bit of spin if you are considering the likes of Broad and Swann who can just bat a little bit

  11. #806
    State Regular AaronK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arjun View Post
    Dropping Harbhajan- That's too tough a call to take, especially if they're going into the semis of the Champions Trophy. While statistics may not back him, he may provide more in terms of intangibles- particularly experience, which can translate into knowledge for the other spinners. Already the pacers are handicapped because of Zaheer's absence. Of course, the next time the Indians play a needless, useless ODI tournament (Kitply, Wealthsurance, all those obscure sponsors), he can sit out of it, with Ishant.

    Now a little thought is required here. Every other team has at least three multi-skilled players. Not quite the genuine all-rounder by definition, but each of these teams has got enough players who can be at least decent at both skills. We can identify two types in them-
    • Type A: Watson, Hopes, Cameron White, Luke Wright, Jacob Oram, Shoaib Malik, Albie Morkel, Roelof van der Merwe, Sanath, Matthews, Gayle
    • Type B: Johnson, Lee, Hauritz, Swann, Broad, Vettori, Franklin, Mills, Afridi, Rana Naved, Botha, Parnell (?), Kulasekara, Thushara, Bravo
    You can guess what each type is. Some may be swapped. Kallis and Flintoff may be left out because they're full-fledged all-rounders who can go solo, while these operate in groups. I've also left out Type C, which includes the wicketkeepers.

    Now India need to identify some players who can go the distance, for either type. We've seen the Indians lack bowling strength when they play seven batsmen, and with five bowlers, the batting solidity is missing. Put two together, and they need multi-skilled players, and more than one. Genuine all-rounders are very hard to come by, so this is the next best. They need to groom a pool, to get one of Type A and two of Type B, to maintain balance in the team. More importantly, they need to find players who can adapt to this properly, so that they don't compromise on their main skill. Who can do the multiple role of either type for India?
    I agreee.. I haven't honestly seen a good alrounder in indian side for such a long time...irfan Pathan started really good but not quit there... so that is one of the main problem i am seeing with indian team so far..

    And their fast bowlers are a bit inconsistant.. Zaheer is good enough to lead the attack but often team he doesn't have someone to support him from other end..

  12. #807
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Furball's Avatar
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    In fairness, in the last 18 months Yuvraj is edging towards being considered an all rounder. 21 wickets @ 34 in your last 35 ODIs where you've scored over 1300 runs @ 47 is a bloody useful contribution.

  13. #808
    Cricketer Of The Year Arjun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Warrior View Post
    India does have the Pathan brothers...who can fit in either of the groups you mention...Sehwag can bowl a bit of spin if you are considering the likes of Broad and Swann who can just bat a little bit
    Dhoni doesn't seem to get along well with the Pathans, for some reason. They seem the best bets, but when out of form, they're quite dire. But just two are not enough; they need more. They need two batsmen who can take a few wickets, and three bowlers who can score chunks of runs that add up, and the top three keep playing. I don't find anyone, except the off-colour Yusuf and the untried Mishra, capable of handling that.
    Quote Originally Posted by AaronK View Post
    I agreee.. I haven't honestly seen a good alrounder in indian side for such a long time...irfan Pathan started really good but not quit there... so that is one of the main problem i am seeing with indian team so far..
    The decision to drop Irfan was on his declining form, but his more specialised replacements seem worse. It is a problem, as the Indians are faced with a twin problem of weak part-time bowlers and a long tail.

    But even then, most teams have tails which are long, but productive. Most of the bowlers in those teams are far from Jacques Kallis or Andrew Flintoff, but together, they do a great job. India can assemble a few like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by GingerFurball View Post
    In fairness, in the last 18 months Yuvraj is edging towards being considered an all rounder. 21 wickets @ 34 in your last 35 ODIs where you've scored over 1300 runs @ 47 is a bloody useful contribution.
    Have you looked at how many overs he's bowled? Or what stage he's been brought in? Or how many runs he scores when he has bowled a lot? Those stats are very deceptive- Yuvraj Singh is way behind any of the Type A bowlers I have listed, and Dhoni has had to protect him a great deal. When Dravid threw him in the deep end in England in 2007, Dimi smashed him for five sixes in the final over. In New Zealand, he bowled five overs a game, and finished with substandard batting and bowling figures.

    Is Yuvraj good enough to go the long haul? A replacement for Harbhajan? Or a rookie Ojha? No way. In fact, if stretched, you'll even lose your batting mainstay, something you can't afford. Likewise Sehwag, Raina and Tendulkar. They're not all-rounders, and not even proper investments. Let's not forget, in the India-Australia series in 2008, Clarke and Sehwag bowled a lot of overs. Their batting suffered in those games. Leave it to someone fresh.

    So far, India's Type A prospects would be Yusuf, Abhishek Nayar, Ravi Jadeja and Rajat Bhatia, and the Type B pool may have Irfan, Piyush Chawla, Praveen Kumar, Mishra, Ashwin, and a few more, but the top two or three of each will suffice. Looking at the lower order of Australia, Sri Lanka and New Zealand, I'd say India needs something like that.

  14. #809
    International Coach pup11's Avatar
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    Pretty gutted about the fact that the game got abandoned, and hopefully we would just secure a win against Pakistan, so it all doesn't come down to all that NRR nonsense..!!

    As for the game, loved the way we batted in slightly dodgy conditions, was very good effort from the likes of Paine, Ricky and Huss (who once again showed how important a player he still is).

    Anyways, don't want to sound Anti-Clarke, but the batting line-up is looking so much better without him in there, hopefully he takes a cue from this and goes back to NSW and works on his OD game, he is a fantastic player and is definitely going to be a key player for us in all three forms of the game, but at present a stint with NSW would only help him get better and reinvent his OD game.

    On a side note, Watto is learning it the hard way that, one should make big runs when things are going your way, I guess his duck yesterday was his third one in a row.
    Last edited by pup11; 28-09-2009 at 11:55 PM.

  15. #810
    International Coach pup11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clapo View Post
    Speaking hypothetically here, but if India's match v WI is also rained out, yet Australia/Pakistan goes ahead fine, is there any chance the India v WI match would be replayed? Just seems a little harsh that with no reserve days, a team could hypothetically be knocked out because they had less opportunity to score more points than the opposition due to circumstances beyond their control.
    Well if that turns out to be the case then its just bad luck, as they surely won't be the first or the last team to whom a such a thing might happen, and on top of all that one can't say that India have played kind of cricket deserving of a spot in semis.



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