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Thread: *Official* Group A Discussion - Pakistan, West Indies, Australia, India

  1. #616
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    It's just an opinion. Since old-timers like Dravid and Ganguly dropped out of the side at the end of the 4-2 home series defeat to Australia in 2007, India haven't stopped winning. That includes series victories over Pakistan, Australia and New Zealand in the tri-series, Sri Lanka away twice, a 5-0 whitewash of England, victory in New Zealand and the West Indies and a Compaq Cup win in Sri Lanka. The only blemish was the Asia Cup, where they missed out to Ajantha Mendis and Sri Lanka in the final. I don't think any other side has had a comparable record for the past two years.

    I don't understand why they've gone back to having Dravid in the team when the strategy of playing strokeplayers all the way down was bringing such unprecedented success for India. Even without Yuvraj and Sehwag, a top order of Gambhir, Tendulkar, Raina, Rohit, Dhoni and Pathan is still bloody good. But there's a strange belief amongst cricket fans when discussing India that a flawless technique is necessary for ODI success, demonstrated by the bagging of Raina's short ball deficiencies earlier in the thread when he hasn't actually been dismissed by one in an ODI for over a year. The vast, vast majority of ODI surfaces are unspeakably flat these days so all you need is to be able to score and score quickly. If they continue with a team packed with sloggers, hitters and strokeplayers, I think they'll be the best around.
    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    The Filth have comfortably the better bowling. But the Gash have the batting. Might be quite good to watch.

  2. #617
    International Debutant Dissector's Avatar
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    A full-strength Indian team has the best batting in the world but I don't think you can call them the best side. Even with Zaheer the bowling is average and quite brittle in crunch situations and the fielding is below par. In terms of performance we haven't really excelled long enough to be called the best. Apart from the latest win in Sri Lanka I don't think we have won a one-off ODI final in the entire decade.

  3. #618
    State 12th Man godofcricket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratters View Post
    Australia lost McGrath and couldn't beat England in the Ashes. So do we not call them the best side because they had an apparently weaker bench strength? India have consistently performed in matches even when their best players have been missing like Zaheer had been. With 3 players, it is too big a gap to fill. I think it is fairly fair to call India the best side, if any one wants to call them that. Australia were dire in the ODI series v England and even prior to that and show they can't play spin properly. South Africa is the only serious challengers.
    Sorry could you tell me which ashes series are you talking about?? the one in 2005???...I will come back to this discussion tommarrow but i was having a similar discussion about indian batting when they are exerted in a bit of pressure. India from my point of view can never maintain the no.1 position unless they find top quality bowlers who can deliver on consistent basis.
    Wasim Akram: The most sKiLlFuL bowler in history!

    Mcgrath said he is fond of the genius "Akram would power through the crease and do whatever he wanted with the old and new ball"

    Allan Border "If I ever get a chance to be reborn as a cricketer, I would want to be Wasim"

    Richards, Tendulkar and Waugh described Akram as the most dangerous bowler they had ever faced.

    > > > Wasims Magic Delivery. Late Swing. Hatrick. < < <

  4. #619
    Banned Pratters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uppercut View Post
    I don't understand why they've gone back to having Dravid in the team when the strategy of playing strokeplayers all the way down was bringing such unprecedented success for India. Even without Yuvraj and Sehwag, a top order of Gambhir, Tendulkar, Raina, Rohit, Dhoni and Pathan is still bloody good. But there's a strange belief amongst cricket fans when discussing India that a flawless technique is necessary for ODI success, demonstrated by the bagging of Raina's short ball deficiencies earlier in the thread when he hasn't actually been dismissed by one in an ODI for over a year. The vast, vast majority of ODI surfaces are unspeakably flat these days so all you need is to be able to score and score quickly. If they continue with a team packed with sloggers, hitters and strokeplayers, I think they'll be the best around.
    I debated regarding this with you - that a sheet anchor can be useful in ODIs but if you get a stroke player and a defensive player, obviously one would obviously choose the stroke player (they must be of comparable ability of course). Also, I disagree with the Dravid selection as well. Dravid may succeed in making runs but there were other players we could and should have gone to. It's a step backwards.


  5. #620
    Banned Pratters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godofcricket View Post
    Sorry could you tell me which ashes series are you talking about?? the one in 2005???
    Yes.

  6. #621
    International Coach adharcric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faisal1985 View Post
    For all those who are happy about this win......as a Pakistani i am also happy but....to be very honest had Raina stayed at the crease this was easily India's game.....he got a tough call from Davis....
    Impressive.

    Hopefully Dhoni will realize that it's time to bring in Nayar and Mishra. Praveen Kumar isn't in favor right now but he's a better one-day bowler than both RP and Ishant.
    Last edited by adharcric; 26-09-2009 at 03:11 PM.

  7. #622
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Uppercut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratters View Post
    I debated regarding this with you - that a sheet anchor can be useful in ODIs but if you get a stroke player and a defensive player, obviously one would obviously choose the stroke player (they must be of comparable ability of course). Also, I disagree with the Dravid selection as well. Dravid may succeed in making runs but there were other players we could and should have gone to.
    I think what we agreed on in the end was that Dravid isn't the ideal sheet anchor. The sheet anchor in the side is now MS Dhoni, who gets a single or two almost every ball and allows the big hitters to get back on strike. Dravid, apart from simply averaging a hell of a lot less than Dhoni, doesn't normally rotate the strike well enough to let the rest of the side bat around him.

    India's running between the wickets in general during the past two years has been a class above. If you were to look, for example, at this match in which India beat England comfortably, the notable statistic is that India hit only one more four and one more six than England but still stuffed them by 54 runs. This is an incredible transformation for India, who are stereotyped as a side of lazy stroke makers who don't like running.

    Dravid just looks like a massive step back to me. He struggles to get off strike, he strikes at around 65 or 70 even when India are only one wicket down, he puts additional pressure on other players to bear the burden of keeping the run-rate under control and- the clincher- he only barely scores more runs than them. It's a conservative selection that contradicts the "why not?" attitude that has brought India such success for almost two years.

  8. #623
    Banned Pratters's Avatar
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    Yeah and agree with all that. Dravid hardly rotates the strike which frustrates the player at the other end.

  9. #624
    State Regular AaronK's Avatar
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    I have mention this before maybe in some other forums about both Dravid and Kallis.. although, Kallis has improved greatly in recent times.. but i never considered any of them good one day batsman..I might take kallis just because of his bowling but purely as a batsman.. I will never want Kallis and Dravid in my team..afew years ago before a big match between Aus and South Africa Ricky Pointing said in a press conferenace that he doesn't mind Kallis coming in soon and play the whole 50 overs.. in fact he preferes that and his idea was that if he bat through most of the match south Africa won't score more than 250 runs..which is achivable..

  10. #625
    International Vice-Captain Faisal1985's Avatar
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    What i really wish to see is a full strength Indian batting side against the likes of Siddle, Johnson, Lee, Watson on a green top (something like where England was bowling against SL in the CT)......if India passes 215-230 runs,........i say Indian batting passed the test and is the best in the world at this time....To me the Aussie bowling attack is great at this time.....perhaps even better then SA's or SL's at the moment......and that would be a real test for the Indian batting giants..........that would be interesting to see...
    BE AFRIDI!
    Be VERY AFRIDI!!

  11. #626
    International Vice-Captain Faisal1985's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronK View Post
    I have mention this before maybe in some other forums about both Dravid and Kallis.. although, Kallis has improved greatly in recent times.. but i never considered any of them good one day batsman..I might take kallis just because of his bowling but purely as a batsman.. I will never want Kallis and Dravid in my team..afew years ago before a big match between Aus and South Africa Ricky Pointing said in a press conferenace that he doesn't mind Kallis coming in soon and play the whole 50 overs.. in fact he preferes that and his idea was that if he bat through most of the match south Africa won't score more than 250 runs..which is achivable..
    i disagree with the fact that Kallis is that slow or comparable to Dravid....Kallis is a killer batsman and yes he used to be an overly defensive batsman in the past and thats why ranked highly in the Tests....but now i think he has changed his very nature of batting style...he comes in and he bats hard and something like Smith/Hayden, where you basically bully the bowler....Kallis is a great batsman....Dravid's time is done.....as an ODI player.....

  12. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faisal1985 View Post
    For all those who are happy about this win......as a Pakistani i am also happy but....to be very honest had Raina stayed at the crease this was easily India's game.....he got a tough call from Davis....

    The biggest blunder Younis made yet again was giving the ball to Umar Gul, that was going to cost us the game after Ajmal and Afridi had pulled things back....Younis should not have thorwn the ball to Gul....

    Gul was the biggest disappointment today.....but i seriously salute to the little Gambhir this guy is amazing bro.....simply amazing .........

    Finally salutations to Malik and Mo Yo .....what an innings....brilliant....that partnership was the difference in the end .......

    you have to the most annoying forumer here, even with this good win you have say these bakwas stupid things about the national team. Yes Younis did make mistake but he quickly realised the todays was not Gul's day and he took him off, after that he made all the right decisions to the end. Try to look at positive things some times instead of of just focussing on negative, I am glad I dont know you in real life.

  13. #628
    ret
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    I think Faisal summed it up nicely
    Fastest gun in town

  14. #629
    Hall of Fame Member Johnners's Avatar
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    Disappointing WI got over 200, oh well, real test comes this week against India/Pakistan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Mitch Johnson is ****ing awesome for cricket.
    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    Ponting's ability to ton up in the first innings of a series should not be understated. So much pressure, so important. What a great!

  15. #630
    International Vice-Captain Faisal1985's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SaeedAnwar View Post
    you have to the most annoying forumer here, even with this good win you have say these bakwas stupid things about the national team. Yes Younis did make mistake but he quickly realised the todays was not Gul's day and he took him off, after that he made all the right decisions to the end. Try to look at positive things some times instead of of just focussing on negative, I am glad I dont know you in real life.
    Winning does not mean that you can not learn something from it.......YK brought Gul back when Riana was looking good....you know what? bad decision!!!.....put Aamir and have him bowl some short stuff to Raina.....Gul was not the right move to counter Raina...After all the brilliance in the field by YK and after superb bowling from Afridi and Ajmal, this was a suicide move.....YK should have understood it from the first Gul's spell that he is not doing good today.......

    ....if you want to become a better team learn from you mistakes......at the same time i can not appreciate enough of YK's decision to let Misbah go for this game...

    Be honest about facts, and be honest to your national team and country...only then you can move forward and become a stronger team............
    Last edited by Faisal1985; 26-09-2009 at 08:12 PM.

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