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Thread: What is the point of the Champions Trophy?

  1. #16
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    Eternal Optimist / Cricket Web Staff Member GIMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    I think most sides and fans would rather win the CT then beat Australia in a 5 match ODI series, especially if winning the CT includes beating Australia along the way. You say 'If a team wins it doesn't mean that much' well to who? You maybe, but it means a lot to the players and to many of the fans and as I said, they're all that matters really.
    TBH if in the autumn of 06 you'd have given me the choice between winning the CT & the CB series, I reckon I would have chosen the CB, easy to say now but winning away in Australia should in theory have been a big deal so close to the WC (it wasn't, of course).

    That being said, I agree with a lot of what you are saying. CT is not the best honour going, but a trophy is a trophy and once my team is playing in it I want them to win, more than I do most ODI series, where it's nice to win but losing doesn't get me down like a Test loss. In the CT the feeling when we go out in the group stage will be similar to when we lose a Test series.
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    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    Australia really showed that with their attitude last time around didn't they. It's an important one day tournament second only to the WC and means more than virtually any other limited overs competition as the best play the best and the standing order in world cricket is sorted out properly. The last one meant a lot to the players and it meant a lot to the fans - the two entities that only really matter in the sport so I fail to see how it's pointless besides another routine round of ODI bashing.
    My sentiments exactly on the subject.

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    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I just wish the ODI-bashers would make it obvious it's ODIs rather than this ODI tournament and that ODI series that they dislike.
    What a very strange thing to say.

    Anyhow if you're suspicious that people aren't up-front enough, then I'm happy to set out my views.

    As for ODIs I will happily watch them - and indeed pay good money to go and watch them - and I will occasionally see some excellent cricket. By and large, however, they don't begin to compare with Test cricket and they pale into insignificance beside it.

    As for this particular competition, I've never understood the point of it. It's an unnecessary bolt-on to the already-overfull international cricketing calendar, and now with the advent of 20:20 (whatever your thoughts of that particular format) there is still less room, and even less need, for this competition.

    In 2004 England, as hosts, played Australia (in the semi?) and the ground was half-empty. Enough said.


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    Cricketer Of The Year zaremba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post
    once my team is playing in it I want them to win
    Agree with this - I always want England to win whenever they play (I'm not one for hoping my team gets thrashed "to teach the selectors a lesson") but wouldn't go any further than that.

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    West Indies has done well at it, so it's worth more than any other tournament these days.
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    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    Australia really showed that with their attitude last time around didn't they. It's an important one day tournament second only to the WC and means more than virtually any other limited overs competition as the best play the best and the standing order in world cricket is sorted out properly. The last one meant a lot to the players and it meant a lot to the fans - the two entities that only really matter in the sport so I fail to see how it's pointless besides another routine round of ODI bashing.
    Not at all. England reached the final in 2004 and WI won it. Who really cares?

    It means nothing. If it meant anything then call it a World Cup. Its a World Cup wanna be that doesnt have the prestige.

    Another irrelevant ODI tournament with a tin pot to win.

    Completely and utterly meaningless and clogs the calender. Make the WC every 2 years or get rid of this. I dont get what the point is.

    Of course players and fans want to win but it carries no importance or consequence. It has nothing to do with the format (ie ODIs) but the point of it existence.
    Last edited by Goughy; 09-08-2008 at 04:50 PM.
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    Request Your Custom Title Now! Mr Mxyzptlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    Not at all. England reached the final in 2004 and WI won it. Who really cares?

    It means nothing. If it meant anything then call it a World Cup. Its a World Cup wanna be that doesnt have the prestige.
    Been marginally more competitive than the WC tbh. The WC is overrated.

  9. #24
    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    Not at all. England reached the final in 2004 and WI won it. Who really cares?

    It means nothing. If it meant anything then call it a World Cup. Its a World Cup wanna be that doesnt have the prestige.

    Another irrelevant ODI tournament with a tin pot to win.

    Completely and utterly meaningless and clogs the calender. Make the WC every 2 years or get rid of this. I dont get what the point is.

    Of course players and fans want to win but it carries no importance or consequence. It has nothing to do with the format (ie ODIs) but the point of it existence.
    Irrelevant, no importance or consequence to you but I wouldn't try pretending it's that way for others.
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    Hall of Fame Member chaminda_00's Avatar
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    As I said it is 50/50 with the fans right now. You shouldn't try and pretend that majority of fans really think this tournament is important. Cus a lot don't, but a lot think it has some place. Saying it pointless is OTT, but saying right now it is a major tournament is not correct as well. The point of the tournament is somewhere inbetween.
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  11. #26
    RTDAS pasag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaminda_00 View Post
    As I said it is 50/50 with the fans right now. You shouldn't try and pretend that majority of fans really think this tournament is important. Cus a lot don't, but a lot think it has some place. Saying it pointless is OTT, but saying right now it is a major tournament is not correct as well. The point of the tournament is somewhere inbetween.
    It is a major tournament though, it's absurd to say otherwise. Just because it's not as big as the WC doesn't make it not major. From how I gauged it last time, it was a lot more than 50/50. I think you're giving a minor but very vocal anti-ODI movement a lot more credit then they deserve. As I said before it's not the greatest thing ever, I'm not arguing that but it's not irrelevant either, which is my point and I think you'd agree with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goughy View Post
    Not at all. England reached the final in 2004 and WI won it. Who really cares?

    It means nothing. If it meant anything then call it a World Cup. Its a World Cup wanna be that doesnt have the prestige.

    Another irrelevant ODI tournament with a tin pot to win.

    Completely and utterly meaningless and clogs the calender. Make the WC every 2 years or get rid of this. I dont get what the point is.

    Of course players and fans want to win but it carries no importance or consequence. It has nothing to do with the format (ie ODIs) but the point of it existence.
    If players and fans want to win it, then its obviously important. Personally I'm very happy to say we won it in 2000, it wasn't a world cup victory but it was the next best thing.

    It does clog the calendar in a way, but its also good World Cup practice because it revs up the players to peform on the world stage, and winning the Champions Trophy would be a great confidence booster leading into the world cup. I'm sure the players and most fans would rather win a mini world cup than another random ODI series against another team, because to win the CC you have to beat several/all of the teams.
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    Hall of Fame Member Goughy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flem274* View Post
    If players and fans want to win it, then its obviously important.
    Players and fans want to win every game. That isnt a relevant point regarding its importance. I fail to see how this tournament is a 'major' tournament.

    I think its a little childish for people to keep throwing 'anti-ODI' movement comments in virtually every thread. My points have nothing to do with the format, just the existence of the tournament.

    The calender would be better without it. If you are going to the effort to get everyone together then at least give a World Championship for winning it.

    Its a lot of effort for nothing. Just another made for TV event to generate money.

    Its got nothing to do with ODIs (though people can keep telling themselves whatever they want) but the fact that designing a massive secondary tournament that by its nature is inferior to the big event in an already packed schedule is pointless.
    Last edited by Goughy; 10-08-2008 at 08:26 AM.

  14. #29
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaremba View Post
    What a very strange thing to say.

    Anyhow if you're suspicious that people aren't up-front enough, then I'm happy to set out my views.

    As for ODIs I will happily watch them - and indeed pay good money to go and watch them - and I will occasionally see some excellent cricket. By and large, however, they don't begin to compare with Test cricket and they pale into insignificance beside it.
    No, they do indeed. But Test cricket constantly gets boring IMO, I enjoy it more with the ODI change-up, and there's also for mine no point in ODIs without global tournaments. And every 4 years is not enough, and if it was down to me I'd have the World Cup every 2 years. But I$C$C don't, so this is the second-best thing.
    As for this particular competition, I've never understood the point of it. It's an unnecessary bolt-on to the already-overfull international cricketing calendar, and now with the advent of 20:20 (whatever your thoughts of that particular format) there is still less room, and even less need, for this competition.
    See, I just don't understand this. Yes, the schedule is indeed far too packed. So lance some of the potentially less important stuff. Get rid of Twenty20 Internationls - the IPL is more than good enough to cater for that. Get rid of bilateral ODI series', as many as you need to. Get rid of Bangladesh and other substandard sides from the schedule involving the top 8 teams. But don't take out something that can potentially be an excellent tournament and an excellent advertisment for the ODI game.
    In 2004 England, as hosts, played Australia (in the semi?) and the ground was half-empty. Enough said.
    And had the scheduling been better, the ticket prices been more realistic and the whole thing basically been better planned, I'm wholly confident that would have been very, very different.
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    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeraintIsMyHero View Post
    once my team is playing in it I want them to win, more than I do most ODI series, where it's nice to win but losing doesn't get me down like a Test loss.
    This is an interesting one for mine. I honestly don't care in the slightest about the result of a ODI series, I care about good players doing well, poor players doing poorly, and that's it. As long as lessons are learnt I don't mind in the slightest about the result.

    But with the World Cup and Champions Trophy it's really a different matter. I would prefer victory.

    However, losing a Test is something that'll always disappoint me more than losing a WC\CT ODI. Although being knocked-out of the World Cup in 1999 was indeed every bit as disappointing as any Test series loss I've experienced.

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