Championless Trophy? - stop the bs and go

[Top_Cat]

There are places in India where the threat is just as high as there is in Pakistan and yet Aussies don't have a problem because of two reasons:

a. There is no such stigma attached with India as there is with Pakistan (mainly based on wrong perceptions, if I may add that)

b. Money. Moolah does talk and they all know that there is a good amount of money to be made if you are an Aussie cricketer touring India. The Ads, the IPL contracts and now even Bollywood cameos being on the anvil makes it a more viable proposition and they are willing to take that chance against security advice.

And money lost after legal action by the BCCI.

At the end of the day, the blame should sit with CA for not being man enough to send the players (whoever are ready to play) on tour. I am sure if there is one tour by an Aussie team to Pak, even the players who have concerns will be ready to tour the next time.

Now hang on a sec; if you want to blame someone, blame DFAT. CA take their advice from them, a federal government agency no less. It's pretty clear that CA aren't well enough informed to make a decision themselves so they have to trust someone and DFAT are the logical choice in this country. Could you imagine the outcry if CA ignored the very government agency tasked to provide this info? Not to mention the lawsuits to follow if something bad did happen? They'd be rightly pillored and sued into oblivion. Following the advice of DFAT is a prudent business decision by CA, perfectly justifiable and there's no-one, put into a similar position, who wouldn't do the same.

In the eyes of DFAT, India and Pakistan are not the same level of risk for a touring party and there's no getting past that. It's absolutely no surprise that CA would choose to tour accordingly. Whether the basis for DFAT's info is questionable or not, that's the way it is. And if I had legal responsibility for the safety of anyone, anecdotal info from non-official sources wouldn't cut it for me either.

 

[biased indian]

Now hang on a sec; if you want to blame someone, blame DFAT. CA take their advice from them, a federal government agency no less. It's pretty clear that CA aren't well enough informed to make a decision themselves so they have to trust someone and DFAT are the logical choice in this country. Could you imagine the outcry if CA ignored the very government agency tasked to provide this info? Not to mention the lawsuits to follow if something bad did happen? They'd be rightly pillored and sued into oblivion. Following the advice of DFAT is a prudent business decision by CA, perfectly justifiable and there's no-one, put into a similar position, who wouldn't do the same.

In the eyes of DFAT, India and Pakistan are not the same level of risk for a touring party and there's no getting past that. It's absolutely no surprise that CA would choose to tour accordingly. Whether the basis for DFAT's info is questionable or not, that's the way it is. And if I had legal responsibility for the safety of anyone, anecdotal info from non-official sources wouldn't cut it for me either.

Kashmir is same as the most troubled parts of Pakistan..ok we don't play cricket any more in Kashmir.

But North east india has the same rating as Other parts of Pakistan like karachi and lahore..and i think Pakistan only got this rating since the war on terror while the North east india was in the same rating for the last 10+ years.but both Aus and NZ did play in North east india with out any fuss in 2003 and i am sure they will play again there ..if i am correct Australia did play a warm up match after 2003 in N E india

 

[Top_Cat]

Kashmir is same as the most troubled parts of Pakistan..ok we don't play cricket any more in Kashmir.

But North east india has the same rating as Other parts of Pakistan like karachi and lahore..and i think Pakistan only got this rating since the war on terror while the North east india was in the same rating for the last 10+ years.but both Aus and NZ did play in North east india with out any fuss in 2003 and i am sure they will play again there ..if i am correct Australia did play a warm up match after 2003 in N E india

I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about the region in terms of the threat level. I can't contradict nor support you, DFAT or anyone. I'm just saying that CA would run with their assessment over anyone else's if for nothing else to avoid being sued if something does go wrong.

 

[silentstriker]

I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about the region in terms of the threat level. I can't contradict nor support you, DFAT or anyone. I'm just saying that CA would run with their assessment over anyone else's if for nothing else to avoid being sued if something does go wrong.

But if that were true, they wouldn't play in places in India where the threat level is the same as in Pakistan. Yet they do. Blame doesn't lie with individual players, but certainly does with CA.

 

[Top_Cat]

But if that were true, they wouldn't play in places in India where the threat level is the same as in Pakistan. Yet they do. Blame doesn't lie with individual players, but certainly does with CA.

So the threat level at the time the Aussies played was 'Do Not Travel'? Because right now, they're not the same. Bear in mind, the DFAT website only carries generalised warnings; phrases like "We are receiving numerous pieces of information....." etc. with the funky little bar at the top which, even if they're the same on the site, doesn't necessarily mean the threat level is exactly the same in any places you compare. The info DFAT would give CA would not be a link to their site, it'd be more detailed too. Trust me on this, work experience talking. Threat assessments can change by the day and in certain situations, by the hour.

The point; CA would take DFAT's call and would likely would err on the side of caution. India is perceived as safer, generally-speaking, than Pakistan, specific hotspots notwithstanding. Anecdotal evidence, such as "My friend went to Islamabad last weekend and they were perfectly safe" isn't anywhere near enough to invalidate that if the official info from DFAT says "Dear God, don't travel there." There's a whole heap you and I don't know about which inform the threat so, to be honest, there's not a person on this site who can really speak intelligently enough about it.

 

[silentstriker]

So the threat level at the time the Aussies played was 'Do Not Travel'? Because right now, they're not the same.

It was "Reconsider your need to travel", which is the same as Pakistan's "Reconsider your need to travel"

India has a do not travel in certain sections, while Pakistan has the same thing. And in both of those places, there would be no cricket.

 

[silentstriker]

So the threat level at the time the Aussies played was 'Do Not Travel'? Because right now, they're not the same. Bear in mind, the DFAT website only carries generalised warnings; phrases like "We are receiving numerous pieces of information....." etc. with the funky little bar at the top which, even if they're the same on the site, doesn't necessarily mean the threat level is exactly the same in any places you compare. The info DFAT would give CA would not be a link to their site, it'd be more detailed too. Trust me on this, work experience talking. Threat assessments can change by the day and in certain situations, by the hour.

I used to consult for a security company that businesses hired to tell them whether it was safe to travel or to open up branches. I know full well what goes on in the annals of that industry.

In any case, the fact still remains that most countries do go to Pakistan, who are just as much at 'risk' as Australia, and Australia's own government provides very similar warnings to several cricket playing places in India which Australia do go to.

If you want to look at details instead of generalized warnings, that's fine too. If you think a stadium in Karachi is any less safe than a stadium in Jaipur, then you're wrong. It's that simple.

 

[Sanz]

Kashmir is same as the most troubled parts of Pakistan..ok we don't play cricket any more in Kashmir.

We dont play International Cricket in Kashmir because of politics.

 

[itduzz]

'Learn from Lawson,' PCB tells Australia

I think they should take a leaf out of (Pakistan coach) Geoff Lawson's book. If terrorists had a point to prove, they could have targeted him or his Australian staff. But this hasn't been the situation," PCB COO Shafqat Naghmi told the Herald.

http://www.cricketnext.com/news/lear.../32339-13.html

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Good point, it's amazing that Geoff Lawson isn't the number one target of international terrorists.

 

[archie mac]

Good point, it's amazing that Geoff Lawson isn't the number one target of international terrorists.

It should be remembered that he did bowl a 'Beamer' in a Test once

 

[Top_Cat]

I used to consult for a security company that businesses hired to tell them whether it was safe to travel or to open up branches. I know full well what goes on in the annals of that industry.

In any case, the fact still remains that most countries do go to Pakistan, who are just as much at 'risk' as Australia, and Australia's own government provides very similar warnings to several cricket playing places in India which Australia do go to.

If you want to look at details instead of generalized warnings, that's fine too. If you think a stadium in Karachi is any less safe than a stadium in Jaipur, then you're wrong. It's that simple.

Still not getting it; I'm not arguing against any of that because I don't know any detailed info about the area. Just saying CA will take DFAT's call on the matter and, legally, that would be the prudent option.

 

[howardj]

Good point, it's amazing that Geoff Lawson isn't the number one target of international terrorists.

Geoff loves it over there.

The way he promotes the place, he's the Tourism Minister in all but name.

 

[silentstriker]

Still not getting it; I'm not arguing against any of that because I don't know any detailed info about the area. Just saying CA will take DFAT's call on the matter and, legally, that would be the prudent option.

But they aren't taking DFAT's call, that's what I am saying. They played in areas of India with the same warning as Pakistan.

 

[honestbharani]

And money lost after legal action by the BCCI.



Now hang on a sec; if you want to blame someone, blame DFAT. CA take their advice from them, a federal government agency no less. It's pretty clear that CA aren't well enough informed to make a decision themselves so they have to trust someone and DFAT are the logical choice in this country. Could you imagine the outcry if CA ignored the very government agency tasked to provide this info? Not to mention the lawsuits to follow if something bad did happen? They'd be rightly pillored and sued into oblivion. Following the advice of DFAT is a prudent business decision by CA, perfectly justifiable and there's no-one, put into a similar position, who wouldn't do the same.

In the eyes of DFAT, India and Pakistan are not the same level of risk for a touring party and there's no getting past that. It's absolutely no surprise that CA would choose to tour accordingly. Whether the basis for DFAT's info is questionable or not, that's the way it is. And if I had legal responsibility for the safety of anyone, anecdotal info from non-official sources wouldn't cut it for me either.

Yeah, I get that but the thing is Aussies didn't seem to bother about touring to places in India which had the same level of warning as Pakistan. That is why I think CA should have at least one tour in recent times, at least the CT if nothing else. As I said, if one tour goes smoothly, I am sure lot of the players would be less reluctant about touring Pakistan.

 

[biased indian]

We dont play International Cricket in Kashmir because of politics.

what else did i say ???

 

[itduzz]

Wasim blasts Australia for double standards

KARACHI: Pakistan bowling legend Wasim Akram accused Australia on Wednesday of having "double standards" on security and said they must tour Pakistan to play Champions Trophy.

Players from Australia, New Zealand and England have raised concerns over security in the troubled Islamic republic despite an all-clear from the International Cricket Council (ICC).

"I think the Australians have double standards," Wasim said. "They played in England despite blasts in London in 2005 and four Australians were willing to play in India despite blasts in Jaipur last month."

The ICC board in a meeting starting on June 29 in Dubai will discuss an independent security assessment on the situation in Pakistan before taking a final decision on the Champions Trophy.

Australian captain Ricky Ponting last week said his side and others still had security concerns about Pakistan, and Australia were undecided about competing in the Champions Trophy.

Australia earlier this year postponed a Test and One-day tour of Pakistan over security fears sparked in the wake of a series of blasts -- a decision Wasim believed was justified.

"I was in Australia at that time and backed their decision because the news we were getting at that time was not conducive for cricket, but nothing is happening now and they themselves rescheduled the tour after getting assurances," said Wasim, who played 104 Tests for Pakistan.

Australia set new dates for a One-day tour in 2009 and a Test tour in 2010 following an improvement in security after February's general elections in Pakistan.

Wasim accused the Australians of influencing other nations to boycott September's Champions Trophy.

"How can they create an opinion by sitting there in Australia? They said they don't want to come and (are) also trying to influence other teams. I am sorry, they are willing to play anywhere if they get money," he said.

Wasim said if Australia do not turn up, they should be fined by the ICC and action should be taken against them. The Pakistan Cricket Board last week said it had made arrangements normally reserved for heads of state for the Trophy.

Wasim also lashed out at Tim May, the chief executive of the Federation of International Cricketers' Associations, for generating doubts over security in Pakistan.

Wasim said the Asian bloc, especially India, must support Pakistan. "India have been supportive to Pakistan's cause, they have sent a team for the (ongoing) Asia Cup, so Asia must devise a system to help Pakistan and ensure that the Trophy is held here," he said.

"Pakistan cannot afford teams pulling out at the last minute, it will destroy Pakistan cricket."

Source : IndiaTimes

 

[Richard]

Merge again I guess.

 

[FRAZ]

From what I read on Fox Sports a few weeks ago, there's a great chance of the Champions Trophy being moved to England which is the backup country for the tournament.

Eventualy that may happen I am afraid !

 

[haroon510]

well said by wasim.. i agree with most of his points.