Championless Trophy? - stop the bs and go

[silentstriker]

Originally Posted by Top_Cat

The perception is that the more dangerous parts of Pakistan are far worse than the more dangerous parts of England/Australia and it's hard to argue with that.

But you're not going to the Pakistan-Afghanistan border to play cricket as far as I know.

Originally Posted by Top_Cat

Can't speak for the ECB but CA's position has generally been informed by DFAT (who inform all travel warnings for Australia) and then the decision regarding whether to go is fed back to them from the players. You can question DFAT's info as much as you like but they are the government department who deals directly with this, getting feeds from ASIO, ONA and FedPol who are tasked with collecting this info. For CA to ignore any of that would be the height of irresponsibility.

Very interesting. From the DFAT:

We advise you to exercise a high degree of caution in India because of the high risk of terrorist activity by militant groups.

We advise you to exercise a high degree of caution in India because of the high risk of terrorist activity by militant groups. Pay close attention to your personal security at all times and monitor the media for information about possible new safety or security risks.

Terrorists are active in Jammu and Kashmir, particularly during the summer months. In the past, tourist buses and groups have been targeted. See also Civil Unrest/Political Tension (below).

You should be particularly vigilant in the lead up to and on days of national significance such as Republic Day (26 January) and Independence Day (15 August) as militants have used such occasions to mount attacks. Additional security measures may be imposed from time to time which may cause delays for road, rail and air passengers.

Terrorist attacks can occur anywhere in India. In planning your activities, consider the kind of places known to be terrorist targets and the level of security provided. There is also a risk of attacks in commercial and public areas and at events and places known to be frequented by foreigners. These include prominent government buildings, places of worship, markets and shopping malls, public transport networks, religious sites, pilgrimages and festivals and tourist sites. Recent attacks have included explosions at a market place, local courts, a cinema and local transport networks. These risks apply in all of India’s cities and tourist centres.

On 13 May 2008, there was a series of coordinated bomb blasts in the walled city area of Jaipur in the state of Rajasthan. 63 people were killed and over 200 injured.

Height of irresponsibility?

[Top_Cat]

Originally Posted by silentstriker

But you're not going to the Pakistan-Afghanistan border to play cricket as far as I know.

Mate, you're preaching to the converted here; I'm with you, if some of the Aussies would just do a bit of reading and talk to the right people, they'd see it's probably going to be okay. I'd go if I was playing. But I'm also not about to mess with someone's individual choice.

Originally Posted by silentstriker

Very interesting. From the DFAT:

Height of irresponsibility?

Nah, DFAT put out different warnings, certainly stronger ones than that for Pakistan generally. That one wouldn't be considered a warning to avoid the country altogether. Contrast that with the warning for Pakistan;

http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-c...dvice/Pakistan

From the page;

We strongly advise you to reconsider your need to travel to Pakistan at this time due to the very high threat of terrorist attack, sectarian violence and the unpredictable security situation. If you do decide to travel to Pakistan, you should exercise extreme caution. If you are in Pakistan and concerned for your safety, you should consider leaving if it is safe to do so.

Subtle difference perhaps but the Indian one is considered a lower-level warning whereas the Pakistan page is essentially saying "Avoid travelling here at all."

Could be worse, anyway, could be Sudan;

http://www.smartraveller.gov.au/zw-c...w/Advice/Sudan

[MrHat]

Australia is not as concerned about terrorism in India as Pakistan because the violence in the former is local and political in nature, while the latter has a global jihad element to it. In other words they are more vunerable as the actual targets of militants rather than just innocent bystanders as they would be in India. If one were to just look at raw statistics, Pakistan is much more dangerous in general - bcos a massive bombing campaign just stopped going off a few months ago, the place is not suddenly safe. Not to the Western brain anyway.

Also if Queensland was being bombed at the rate of one a week, had the worlds foremost terrrorist living there, had madrasses as the only education option, had uncivilised elements perpeturting a war of civilisation against NSW + the world I wouldn't consider playing cricket in Cairns for an extended period.

[biased indian]

Originally Posted by MrHat

Australia is not as concerned about terrorism in India as Pakistan because the violence in the former is local and political in nature, while the latter has a global jihad element to it. In other words they are more vunerable as the actual targets of militants rather than just innocent bystanders as they would be in India.

Have you ever heard of Kashmir....i am sure Australia will play an ODI in jammu if india scheduled it there...thats what moneys makes to u, money makes u feels safe..

i think Australia have played in guhwahati..which is the second most dangerous place in india after kashmir

if Asian bloke stand as one decide not to tour any other country boycotting any other Asian country we will not have this problem at all...

[biased indian]

Originally Posted by Top_Cat

Subtle difference perhaps but the Indian one is considered a lower-level warning whereas the Pakistan page is essentially saying "Avoid travelling here at all."

Interestingly Aus played NZ in 2003 @ Nehru Stadium, Guwahati..which has the same level warning as Pakistan rite now..and would have been even more in 2003 considering there was more violence their during the last 10 years

[duffer]

Originally Posted by MrHat

Australia is not as concerned about terrorism in India as Pakistan because the violence in the former is local and political in nature, while the latter has a global jihad element to it. In other words they are more vunerable as the actual targets of militants rather than just innocent bystanders as they would be in India. If one were to just look at raw statistics, Pakistan is much more dangerous in general - bcos a massive bombing campaign just stopped going off a few months ago, the place is not suddenly safe. Not to the Western brain anyway.

Also if Queensland was being bombed at the rate of one a week, had the worlds foremost terrrorist living there, had madrasses as the only education option, had uncivilised elements perpeturting a war of civilisation against NSW + the world I wouldn't consider playing cricket in Cairns for an extended period.

The expert (heh) speaketh.

[MrHat]

Stating the obvoius pea brain

[duffer]

Originally Posted by MrHat

Stating the obvoius pea brain

Not really, you've got the situation in India very wrong.

[MrHat]

I'm not sure how? As a border dispute, the India - Pak issues are between each other and have nothing to do with the West. Pakistan clearly does has issues with the West so Aus has a right to be concerned..

[duffer]

Originally Posted by MrHat

I'm not sure how? As a border dispute, the India - Pak issues are between each other and have nothing to do with the West. Pakistan clearly does has issues with the West so Aus has a right to be concerned..

Well the reason I hear from many cricketers when discussing security dangers is that they don't necessarily fear being specifically targeted, their main concern was ending up as collateral and the likelihood of that happening in India is very high as well.

Every major city in the north and now the south has been the target of major attacks and now even tourist spots like Jaipur are being targeted, so although it may not be as commonplace as in Pakistan there still lies a high threat.

I don't see the relevance of putting a "Western" spin on it either, sporting teams have never been specifically targeted in Pakistan to my knowledge; foreign embassies, multinationals and government buildings are the Western targets in Pakistan. If anything the Indian team is the biggest target when touring Pakistan and yet they're happy enough to go there too.

[MrHat]

Originally Posted by duffer

Well the reason I hear from many cricketers when discussing security dangers is that they don't necessarily fear being specifically targeted, their main concern was ending up as collateral and the likelihood of that happening in India is very high as well.

Every major city in the north and now the south has been the target of major attacks and now even tourist spots like Jaipur are being targeted, so although it may not be as commonplace as in Pakistan there still lies a high threat.

I don't see the relevance of putting a "Western" spin on it either, sporting teams have never been specifically targeted in Pakistan to my knowledge; foreign embassies, multinationals and government buildings are the Western targets in Pakistan. If anything the Indian team is the biggest target when touring Pakistan and yet they're happy enough to go there too.

I am not sure what cricketers think, not that they'd say so publicly anyway. CA, FICA might think differently..

And bcos it hasn't happened before, is not a reason count on it never happening.

[duffer]

Originally Posted by MrHat

I am not sure what cricketers think, not that they'd say so publicly anyway. CA, FICA might think differently..

And bcos it hasn't happened before, is not a reason count on it never happening.

As for the cricketers I'm going by what was said by some (Stuart Clark etc) on the situation with their previous abandonment there.

And I agree that just because there hasn't been a precedent that you should rule it out, but no-one seems to be taking into account the Presidential level security that has been offered to the teams,which should be enough for anyone surely?

[Athlai]

Vettori did say he had no problem going if the security was top notch. Reckon that should be the case all round.

[nightprowler10]

Originally Posted by Athlai

Vettori did say he had no problem going if the security was top notch. Reckon that should be the case all round.

This is what gets my goat. PCB promised Australians the same protection they give heads of state, yet they refused to go anyway and the situation is much, much calmer now. My parents were in Lahore for over a month and (shack and horror) no bodyguards. The situation is overblown by the media.

[Son Of Coco]

Originally Posted by duffer

As for the cricketers I'm going by what was said by some (Stuart Clark etc) on the situation with their previous abandonment there.

And I agree that just because there hasn't been a precedent that you should rule it out, but no-one seems to be taking into account the Presidential level security that has been offered to the teams,which should be enough for anyone surely?

I'd like to see them play in medieval armour with jousting sticks. And when the opposition batsman comes creaking to the crease someone in the Australian slips cordon would say 'Jousting sticks...what's he askin'...and the batsmen would go '$250'...and the slips could would all say in unison 'Tell him he's dreamin'.


I'd be sitting on the lounge at home with tears running down my face and wet pants.