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Thread: Championless Trophy? - stop the bs and go

  1. #376
    State 12th Man godofcricket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanz View Post
    Not for me sir. Although, I can understand why you would think so.
    With all due respect to your opinions on this i just thought if everyone started to had similar reasoning and the basis you had on the matter than no team would have ever toured pakistan since the start of war in iraq (or afghanistan for that matter).
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  2. #377
    State 12th Man godofcricket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pasag View Post
    I wonder if it was based on proper security reports and analysis or just a vote along the traditional lines.
    It has to be based on the report, its a matter of security for the players and nothing goes beyond that.

  3. #378
    International Coach duffer's Avatar
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    India just played there and was absolutely fine so I have no problem with them supporting the bid and having it pushed through.

    Now time to kick back and watch the fallout I guess. Can see a lot of withdrawals happening.

  4. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    Champions Trophy stays in Pakistan

    Iím obviously pleased with the decision. I hope that all players will chose to attend. However if they donít, I will respect their decision no matter how much I disagree with it.

    Sorry, I take the opposite view. This is piss poor by ICC (not the first time). Has ICC ever disagreed with BCCI ever since their rise in dollar value?

    As soon as BCCI said they support Pakistan, ICC panicked and changed their views despite the dodgy reports. The same reports that were sent to Cricket Australia, England, South Africa and New Zealand who all have their concerns about the fact that "security is not guaranteed to the players' safety."

    I personally have nothing against sending teams there, but when reports are as volatile as that, and given ICC's track record, this is hard to take.

    Now we will see a Champions' Trophy compromised and could very well be as farcical (and dangerous) as the WOrld Cup.
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  5. #380
    Global Moderator Fusion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie1 View Post
    Sorry, I take the opposite view. This is piss poor by ICC (not the first time). Has ICC ever disagreed with BCCI ever since their rise in dollar value?

    As soon as BCCI said they support Pakistan, ICC panicked and changed their views despite the dodgy reports. The same reports that were sent to Cricket Australia, England, South Africa and New Zealand who all have their concerns about the fact that "security is not guaranteed to the players' safety."
    Are you saying that security can be GAURANTEED in any other country? Even Australia and England may not be able to provide such an assurance. It would be impractical to demand such a guarantee from anyone. Also, from the reports Iíve read, the South African board were supportive of Pakistan, and they got the same security briefings as others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie1 View Post
    I personally have nothing against sending teams there, but when reports are as volatile as that, and given ICC's track record, this is hard to take.

    Now we will see a Champions' Trophy compromised and could very well be as farcical (and dangerous) as the WOrld Cup.

    I am continually frustrated by this reasoning. The track record of the ICC and the PCB is 100% stellar when it comes to assessing terrorist threats. No player has ever been hurt or targeted by a terrorist in the history of the game! So when the PCB (or ICC if you prefer to blame them) says ďitís safe to tourĒ, they have a pretty good track record of backing up that statement.

  6. #381
    Cricket Web Staff Member Richard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    Are you saying that security can be GAURANTEED in any other country? Even Australia and England may not be able to provide such an assurance. It would be impractical to demand such a guarantee from anyone.
    Indeed. No-one can ever say for certain 100% that a player won't be set upon by an escaped bull or fall down the double-decker bus stairs sideways. OR that they won't be taken hostage by thieves holding the entire hotel they're staying in to ransom.

    Life just doesn't work like that. Safety is never guaranteed. It's always a percentage, which is never 0 and never 100.
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  7. #382
    Hall of Fame Member Sanz's Avatar
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    Very Happy with the decision. Those who feel secure can go, those who do not, well, I can certainly understand.

  8. #383
    International Coach morgieb's Avatar
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    The last thing they want is a torumanment that is not full-strength. As Leslie said, it was a BCCI decision based, like Australia v India. Australia, NZ, SA & England not to send full-strength side. WTF happens if a player dies?
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  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    Are you saying that security can be GAURANTEED in any other country? Even Australia and England may not be able to provide such an assurance. It would be impractical to demand such a guarantee from anyone. Also, from the reports I’ve read, the South African board were supportive of Pakistan, and they got the same security briefings as others.

    I am continually frustrated by this reasoning. The track record of the ICC and the PCB is 100% stellar when it comes to assessing terrorist threats. No player has ever been hurt or targeted by a terrorist in the history of the game! So when the PCB (or ICC if you prefer to blame them) says “it’s safe to tour”, they have a pretty good track record of backing up that statement.
    Your frustration might be better served if ICC had made the better decision to go to Sri Lanka instead.

    Let's put pros and cons in perspective. Forget who's right and whats wrong.

    If Champions Trophy had gone to Sri Lanka (which is being prepared as the backup)... you get full participation from all 8 countries, no questions asked.

    Now that you compromised by putting this 'fear' out there (BCCI, ICC politics aside) in sending teams to Pakistan instead knowing full well that there will be farcical under-strength teams turning your 2nd biggest tournament into a joke,

    which is the more sensible option here? (edit: sensible in the sense that you get a better sporting spectacle with full strength sides)

    A better question is, which countries are more likely to NOT send their full strength teams if the decision went either way? Is BCCI going to go as far as to say, we won't send our team to Sri Lanka (ironic they are there now), because ICC (you) opted out of Pakistan as the venue?

    Farcical.

  10. #385
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    After all the bombed off NZ tours in Sri Lanka, with all due respect to them I'd be more worried about Sri Lanka than Pakistan.

    I'm not fully aware of the current level of terror activity or dangerous activity in general in Pakistan but I guess if the report and the descision to go are at odds with each other then I can understand players being nervous about going, especially with the media spotlight in troubles in the Middle East these days. I understand the concerns of the withdrawing players because if I'd had a bunch of negative reports shoved under my nose I'd definitely be thinking twice about going.

    Its disappointing the tournament will be a bit of a joke with under-strength teams being sent along. The positives though is that perhaps a few excellent players will be discovered and have their chance to shine. It would certainly save the tournament some face.
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  11. #386
    Request Your Custom Title Now! Flem274*'s Avatar
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    [QUOTE=morgieb;1634262]The last thing they want is a torumanment that is not full-strength. As Leslie said, it was a BCCI decision based, like Australia v India. Australia, NZ, SA & England not to send full-strength side. WTF happens if a player dies?[/QUOTE]

    To state the obvious, all hell would break loose at the next ICC meeting and the affected team would definitely withdraw from the tournament. Unlikely they would go back for a while as well. However, from the sound of it players dying will be highly unlikely and I hope the situation does not arise.

  12. #387
    International Coach duffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morgieb View Post
    The last thing they want is a torumanment that is not full-strength. As Leslie said, it was a BCCI decision based, like Australia v India. Australia, NZ, SA & England not to send full-strength side. WTF happens if a player dies?
    Even if it was a BCCI decision I don't see why they're being criticised by people for it(not necessarily on here though). They just sent a full strength side there and the tour went off without any problems whatsoever. Why shouldn't they support the tournament staying in Pakistan if in their opinion it's absolutely safe to send their own team there?

    As for a player dying? That could happen anywhere in any number of circumstances.

  13. #388
    International Coach morgieb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duffer View Post
    Even if it was a BCCI decision I don't see why they're being criticised by people for it(not necessarily on here though). They just sent a full strength side there and the tour went off without any problems whatsoever. Why shouldn't they support the tournament staying in Pakistan if in their opinion it's absolutely safe to send their own team there?

    As for a player dying? That could happen anywhere in any number of circumstances.
    That's true, but my point was that teams/players are likely to boycott it.

  14. #389
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
    Are you saying that security can be GAURANTEED in any other country? Even Australia and England may not be able to provide such an assurance. It would be impractical to demand such a guarantee from anyone. Also, from the reports Iíve read, the South African board were supportive of Pakistan, and they got the same security briefings as others.
    It can't be guaranteed anywhere, but it's also naive to attempt to start all countries off on equal footing when it comes to any perceived threat. Talking about this as if there's a starting point for all teams from which they should consider any threat in exactly the same way makes no sense. What South Africa does is their business, same goes for NZ, India, Australia, Sri Lanka and so on.
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  15. #390
    Hall of Fame Member Son Of Coco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godofcricket View Post
    Its amazing how some people can manage to come to such a ridiculous conclusion.

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