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Thread: Asif, Aktar in Doping Charges

  1. #166
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratyush
    Should be banned 2 years technically yes. Whether they will be remains skeptic.

    BTW the Shane Warne 1 year ban Cricket Australia gave him.. what would have been the ban period if the ICC had caught him or according to WADA? In other words, how much should he have been banned?
    He should have been banned for two years. The way I understood it, if you were found innocent you walked free and if you were found guilty you copped 2 years.

    At the time Warne felt hard done by, but tbh I think he was very lucky.
    You know it makes sense.

  2. #167
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archie mac
    He should have been banned for two years. The way I understood it, if you were found innocent you walked free and if you were found guilty you copped 2 years.

    At the time Warne felt hard done by, but tbh I think he was very lucky.
    I think that's the WADA's stance. But at the time, ICC may not have been WADA compliant, or it may have been an in-house drug test like this one, by ASDA (Australian Sports Drug Agency, or something similar).

  3. #168
    Hall of Fame Member Johnners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortpitched713
    That's true, but throw Shabbir in the mix, and its still more than a handful for most teams.
    Did anyone else find this ironic ??

    I must say that the reports that Asif & Akhtar are only looking at 3-6 month bans is quite poor imo. Despite the fact that they may have indeed unknowingly taken a banned substance, professional sportspersons should be more aware of whats legal and whats not. Such a short ban is hardly a deterrence away from the use of banned substances. Not only that, it sets a poor precedence for those who are caught in the future.

    If the ICC really and truly wish to make their "zero tolerance" policy on drugs clear, the minimal ban (which i understood was 2 years after the warne incident) should be imposed on drug cheats.
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  4. #169
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Pratters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox
    I think that's the WADA's stance. But at the time, ICC may not have been WADA compliant, or it may have been an in-house drug test like this one, by ASDA (Australian Sports Drug Agency, or something similar).
    They should have followed international norms according to me.

    Jonathan Agnew at that time:

    But I think he has been let off lightly. I was talking to a former senior adminstrator of the Australian Cricket Board yesterday and he was under the impression it was mandatory to give a two-year ban for an offence like this. These panels treat diuretics very seriously because they can be used as a masking agent for other substances.


  5. #170
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Mister Wright's Avatar
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    Shoaib tells his side of story

    Interesting part of the article:

    Quote Originally Posted by article
    "After undergoing surgery in Australia earlier and subsequent treatment for the stress fracture, Shoaib has been seeing a hakim (doctor) in Pakistan. It is a possibility that nandrolone drug was mixed in herbal medicines that he has been taking," he said.
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  6. #171
    Cricket Web: All-Time Legend Mister Wright's Avatar
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    No suprise that Hayden wants to Get rid of drug cheats.

  7. #172
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clapo
    If the ICC really and truly wish to make their "zero tolerance" policy on drugs clear, the minimal ban (which i understood was 2 years after the warne incident) should be imposed on drug cheats.
    It's not an ICC issue. The ICC wasn't involved at all in the testing process, thus they can't have any formal say in what the punishment is. It's totally up to the PCB.

  8. #173
    State Captain haroon510's Avatar
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    there is hope for shabir to come back by december as he was in the pakistani camp
    also shahid nazir and mohmad sami. sami should be given a chance maybe he come back to his form. i don't know it is just hard without asif and shoaib for pakistan to win a test match. they got a win in one day but thier bowling line looks pretty weak. the way sanath jaysurya was hiting rana it was obvouse that he can't perform with that form in test matches.

  9. #174
    Hall of Fame Member Johnners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox
    It's not an ICC issue. The ICC wasn't involved at all in the testing process, thus they can't have any formal say in what the punishment is. It's totally up to the PCB.
    thanks for pointing that out

    If thats the case then, you'd hope the PCB takes a similar hard-line approach, it would be quite a farce if they got off with light penalty, especially if the nandrolone wasn't naturally produced.

  10. #175
    International Captain Slow Love™'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Wright
    Are umpires drug tested?

    I need to know for future career aspirations.


    One thing about this whole affair. I don't necessarily believe in the casual demonization of the players concerned, as often follows something like this. Fact is that doctors and trainers are generally employed on the basis of their effectiveness and recovery processes, so there's plenty of motivation for them to play funny buggers with players without necessarily keeping them completely informed.

    I don't know for sure that's what happened here, but it's far from implausible. Hopefully the medical/fitness staff get thoroughly investigated in cases such as these (both when under the ICC's auspices and not).
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  11. #176
    Global Moderator vic_orthdox's Avatar
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    Shoaib should be held fully accountable if it was his doctor who is responsible for the substance abuse. If he wishes to go and use another doctor outside of those recommended by the PCB, he has to make sure that the doctor is aware of world drug standards.

  12. #177
    International Captain Slow Love™'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox
    Shoaib should be held fully accountable if it was his doctor who is responsible for the substance abuse. If he wishes to go and use another doctor outside of those recommended by the PCB, he has to make sure that the doctor is aware of world drug standards.
    Maybe, but my point is more general. It's just too easy for a doctor to give a player something on the banned list, without the player being aware - recommended by the PCB or otherwise. IMO, the approach that ultimate responsibility be given to the player in all cases is a very much less than perfect one, designed only for easy policing. (In other words, we have no other option because our investigative techniques tend mainly just to confirm the presence of the substances, and there are rarely smoking guns to absolutely prove the "guilt" of the person knowingly taking it for illegal purposes.)

    I have no trouble conceiving that sportsmen who have been very cautious and questioned their doctors regularly might still end up with banned substances in their bodies. And then there are the ambiguities in people who naturally produce greater quantities of particular substances than is the norm, and the confusion when it comes to cough medications, etc.

  13. #178
    Hall of Fame Member Johnners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Love™


    One thing about this whole affair. I don't necessarily believe in the casual demonization of the players concerned, as often follows something like this. Fact is that doctors and trainers are generally employed on the basis of their effectiveness and recovery processes, so there's plenty of motivation for them to play funny buggers with players without necessarily keeping them completely informed.

    I don't know for sure that's what happened here, but it's far from implausible. Hopefully the medical/fitness staff get thoroughly investigated in cases such as these (both when under the ICC's auspices and not).
    It's a good point you raise SL. However, it would be extremely difficult to determine exactly who was to blame in Shoaib's case where he has a seperate doctor/trainer, as chances are you would have the Trainer blaming the player/claiming innocence & vice versa.

    If the Trainer/Doctor was in charge of the whole team though it would be easier to determine whether the Doctor or Players were at fault, as the chances are, there would be more than 1 player testing positive.

  14. #179
    Cricket Web Staff Member archie mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_orthdox
    It's not an ICC issue. The ICC wasn't involved at all in the testing process, thus they can't have any formal say in what the punishment is. It's totally up to the PCB.
    That's true, but surely the Boards of international cricket should be singing from the same song sheet, and should make the ICC responsible for uniform rules regarding drug cheats.

  15. #180
    International Captain Slow Love™'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clapo
    It's a good point you raise SL. However, it would be extremely difficult to determine exactly who was to blame in Shoaib's case where he has a seperate doctor/trainer, as chances are you would have the Trainer blaming the player/claiming innocence & vice versa.
    Sure, and that's why we can't police it any differently at this point - we have to impose a penalty on the player no matter what, because if we don't, there will be little to stop people attempting it deliberately and getting away with it when caught. I'm just referring to the way the players get vilified and cast off when they test positive. I have some sympathy, because the science isn't perfect, and I think some players might cop a raw deal. Of course, if you can prove a player knowingly took a substance, then it's clearly different, but in truth, that often doesn't happen.

    If the Trainer/Doctor was in charge of the whole team though it would be easier to determine whether the Doctor or Players were at fault, as the chances are, there would be more than 1 player testing positive.
    Yeah, very true. Though particularly important players can still be singled out for that little bit extra help just to get them on the park a week or two quicker.

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