*** Official New Zealand Domestic Season Thread 2010/11 ***

[Bahnz]

Genuinely interested on why that is tbh.

Just don't think that much of him. He's not particularly quick or accurate. Yes he swings the ball around (and apparently reverses it both ways too, which is a welcome surprise), but the frequency with which he gets hit by domestic batsmen makes me think that he's quite an easy bowler to get on top of. International level batsmen will only find it easier.

Then there's the fact that until this season he's been distinctly mediocre, and even this year his returns were poor from the start of the HRV cup up until that over yesterday.

But we'll see I guess. Maybe this year was a watershed season for him and he's genuinely made massive strides forward. Or maybe he strung together a couple of flukey performances at the start of the season, and added one more on to the end. Time will tell.

 

[Howsie]

Yeah, my biggest concern with his bowling is that he can be pretty loose at times. Obviously he's a strike bowler at this level, he was this season anyway, but with his skillset will he be one at the next level?

 

[Mike5181]

Yeah, there is a difference between domestic and international but what is his record now? 189 wickets at 22.75 with a strike rate of 41. By the time he is eligible he will have been playing first class cricket consistently for a few seasons and that is experience that we really need with Martin, Arnel and co likely to retire relatively soon. I know we saw in the HRV cup that he can get a bit loose at times but he more often than not came back the very next over and destroyed the stumps. His selection is eminent only the eligibility problem and the lack of test matches is in his way to be honest.

I think more people should be talking about Trent Boult to be honest. What are his strengths/Weaknesses that would be useful etc on the top stage.

On the whole Flynn, Williamson fiasco. I would ideally want Williamson to stay at number 3. If Flynn and probably Neil Broom continue to pile on the runs then there is no reason they can't play at number six.

McCullum, Guptill, Williamson, Taylor, Ryder, Flynn/Broom , Vettori, Derek De Border+, Boult/Mckay, Southee, Wagner.

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah, there is a difference between domestic and international but what is his record now? 189 wickets at 22.75 with a strike rate of 41. By the time he is eligible he will have been playing first class cricket consistently for a few seasons and that is experience that we really need with Martin, Arnel and co likely to retire relatively soon. I know we saw in the HRV cup that he can get a bit loose at times but he more often than not came back the very next over and destroyed the stumps. His selection is eminent only the eligibility problem and the lack of test matches is in his way to be honest.

I think more people should be talking about Trent Boult to be honest. What are his strengths/Weaknesses that would be useful etc on the top stage.

On the whole Flynn, Williamson fiasco. I would ideally want Williamson to stay at number 3. If Flynn and probably Neil Broom continue to pile on the runs then there is no reason they can't play at number six.

McCullum, Guptill, Williamson, Taylor, Ryder, Flynn/Broom , Vettori, Derek De Border+, Boult/Mckay, Southee, Wagner.

Slightly deceptive. Snce coming to New Zealand, Wagner has a distinctly mixed track record.

In 2008/09, he took 21 wickets at 33.33
In 2009/10 he took 28 wickets at 37.39
His overall record in New Zealand is 100 wickets at 26.73. Quite good, but without his efforts at the start and the finish of this season, they'd look pretty average.

I don't deny though that having several seasons in domestic cricket to build up his skills and knowledge of his own game, as opposed to being rushed in at the first opportunity (ala Southee) is a good thing. He's got one more season to go before he becomes eligible. If he keeps doing well (and in particular, if he becomes more consistent), then he'll have done a lot towards winning me over.

 

[Flem274*]

McCullum, Guptill, Williamson, Taylor, Ryder, Flynn/Broom , Vettori, Derek De Border+, Boult/Mckay, Southee, Wagner.

Young ftw

 

[Flem274*]

I reckon we should make some CW NZ Domestic Awards for ****s and giggles. Kyle Mills Plate for biggest blow up etc.

The Wellington Trophy for Biggest Batting Fail goes to...Wellington!

South Africa Cough Drop Cup for biggest choke goes to CD

 

[Bahnz]

The Adam Gilchrist award for most amusing commentary by a former Intl would have to go to Jeets.

 

[Mike5181]

Slightly deceptive. Snce coming to New Zealand, Wagner has a distinctly mixed track record.

In 2008/09, he took 21 wickets at 33.33
In 2009/10 he took 28 wickets at 37.39
His overall record in New Zealand is 100 wickets at 26.73. Quite good, but without his efforts at the start and the finish of this season, they'd look pretty average.

I don't deny though that having several seasons in domestic cricket to build up his skills and knowledge of his own game, as opposed to being rushed in at the first opportunity (ala Southee) is a good thing. He's got one more season to go before he becomes eligible. If he keeps doing well (and in particular, if he becomes more consistent), then he'll have done a lot towards winning me over.

He was the highest wicket taker in South African first class cricket all the way back in 2006/07 and probably would of had a go in the national team if the quota thing didn't arise. We all can admit that the first class batsmen over there are a notch above ours and Wagner did that at what 20 years old? He is now the highest wicket taker in New Zealand first class cricket and to be honest despite some of his flaws he is easily more talented than most of our current stock. He may not dominate international cricket but it's refreshing to see a bowler that doesn't just bowl the old line and length medium pacers.

And Hey! he has 3 first class fifties and averages 20 with the bat.

 

[Flem274*]

He was the highest wicket taker in South African first class cricket all the way back in 2006/07 and probably would of had a go in the national team if the quota thing didn't arise. We all can admit that the first class batsmen over there are a notch above ours and Wagner did that at what 20 years old? He is now the highest wicket taker in New Zealand first class cricket and to be honest despite some of his flaws he is easily more talented than most of our current stock. He may not dominate international cricket but it's refreshing to see a bowler that doesn't just bowl the old line and length medium pacers.

And Hey! he has 3 first class fifties and averages 20 with the bat.

Wagner dominated South African second division, which is worse than NZ FC.

 

[Bahnz]

He was the highest wicket taker in South African first class cricket all the way back in 2006/07 and probably would of had a go in the national team if the quota thing didn't arise. We all can admit that the first class batsmen over there are a notch above ours and Wagner did that at what 20 years old? He is now the highest wicket taker in New Zealand first class cricket and to be honest despite some of his flaws he is easily more talented than most of our current stock. He may not dominate international cricket but it's refreshing to see a bowler that doesn't just bowl the old line and length medium pacers.

And Hey! he has 3 first class fifties and averages 20 with the bat.

Again sadly no. Wagner was a fixture of the 2nd division of South african first class cricket. There's been a lot of argument of the quality of cricket he experienced while he was playing there, but suffice it to say that it's a fair step down from the 1st division franchises, and probably even below the standards of New Zealand domestic cricket.

 

[Mike5181]

Again sadly no. Wagner was a fixture of the 2nd division of South african first class cricket. There's been a lot of argument of the quality of cricket he experienced while he was playing there, but suffice it to say that it's a fair step down from the 1st division franchises, and probably even below the standards of New Zealand domestic cricket.

Ah, i knew something didn't look right. Why would he dominate over there then take a couple of years to hit his stride against our first class batsmen. No wonder stats on the guy over there were tricky to find.

And whats your underlining argument about Wagner? Do you think he doesn't have the skill to play at international level or are you like this with any bowler that gets a reasonable amount of hype. The New Zealand pessimistic attitude always confuses me about these sorts of things. We have time and time again selected the Tuffey/Arnel type and as a result had a one dimensional attack. He is a left armer who swings the ball at a reasonable click. I mean really, there isn't more than one or two bowlers in the country that can claim to be better than him despite his odd loose ball. Someone else noted that he actually plays consistently as well which would be a rarity in our usual injury prone players.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Ah, i knew something didn't look right. Why would he dominate over there then take a couple of years to hit his stride against our first class batsmen. No wonder stats on the guy over there were tricky to find.

And whats your underlining argument about Wagner? Do you think he doesn't have the skill to play at international level or are you like this with any bowler that gets a reasonable amount of hype. The New Zealand pessimistic attitude always confuses me about these sorts of things. We have time and time again selected the Tuffey/Arnel type and as a result had a one dimensional attack. He is a left armer who swings the ball at a reasonable click. I mean really, there isn't more than one or two bowlers in the country that can claim to be better than him despite his odd loose ball. Someone else noted that he actually plays consistently as well which would be a rarity in our usual injury prone players.

These hyped up reportedly fast, strike bowlers often get selected. You know what nearly ALWAYS happens? Either they turn out to be pretty **** and get knocked around (but touch 140kph), or it just so happens that they actually ARE just military line-and-length mediums with too much hype behind them. Of course, on the rare occasion one doesn't fall under either the above categories, we can soundly assume they will be injured within their first game or two.

 

[irottev]

Young ftw

He's playing for Canterbury now. Don't be ridiculous. He'll be out the door for someone from the North Island after a few failures. Maybe Jamie How will become a keeper so they can keep using him. :S

CCAANNTTEERRBBUURRYY!!!! WINNING!

 

[Bahnz]

Ah, i knew something didn't look right. Why would he dominate over there then take a couple of years to hit his stride against our first class batsmen. No wonder stats on the guy over there were tricky to find.

And whats your underlining argument about Wagner? Do you think he doesn't have the skill to play at international level or are you like this with any bowler that gets a reasonable amount of hype. The New Zealand pessimistic attitude always confuses me about these sorts of things. We have time and time again selected the Tuffey/Arnel type and as a result had a one dimensional attack. He is a left armer who swings the ball at a reasonable click. I mean really, there isn't more than one or two bowlers in the country that can claim to be better than him despite his odd loose ball. Someone else noted that he actually plays consistently as well which would be a rarity in our usual injury prone players.

No, I'm not saying he could never be a success at international level. I just think we need to see more from him than 1 good season before we can make judgements on his qualities as a cricketer. It's why I'm so glad he doesn't become available until next April.

 

[Mike5181]

These hyped up reportedly fast, strike bowlers often get selected. You know what nearly ALWAYS happens? Either they turn out to be pretty **** and get knocked around (but touch 140kph), or it just so happens that they actually ARE just military line-and-length mediums with too much hype behind them. Of course, on the rare occasion one doesn't fall under either the above categories, we can soundly assume they will be injured within their first game or two.

I have returned to sitting on the fence to Andy Mckay. I really thought he was quite average in the ODI tri series but i don't know maybe he does have something to him other than just the 140k ball. Anyway, Wagner isn't really "reportedly" fast most people who actually follow domestic cricket know he would only be on average in the late 130s. I'm much the same with Bennett. Despite some peoples really quite descriptive criticism of his unique bowling style he has potential. Though when you think about it i would really not want to field a bowling attack of Wagner, Bennett and Mckay haha when they are off they can go for bucket loads.

 

[Flem274*]

He's playing for Canterbury now. Don't be ridiculous. He'll be out the door for someone from the North Island after a few failures. Maybe Jamie How will become a keeper so they can keep using him. :S

CCAANNTTEERRBBUURRYY!!!! WINNING!

Cantabrians are in no position to complain about regional bias.

 

[straw man]

It's the end of the season so, in true NZ style, I am now going to convince myself that there is lots of hope for the future and good developing players will be coming through next season. Awesome. It's a pity I'm already unimpressed with our schedule.

For starters, I'm quite hopeful about a bowling attack of Southee, Martin and McKay in tests. If McKay can bowl as well as it sounds like he has been at the end of the season, then that could be a half decent attack. Boult and Wagner make a case for possible selection sooner or later (once Martin retires). Arnel has probably ruled himself out with the way he bowled vs Pakistan. Put Tuffey in the same basket.

Todd Astle is a big question. In my mind (not necessarily connected to the real world), it makes sense that a talented legspinner is debuted sooner rather than later. I suspect NZ domestic batsmen are not very good at playing legspin full stop... so Astle may just be picking up many of his wickets by virtue of that, and that may stall his development. It makes sense to me that he needs to start learning to bowl to batsmen who are used to playing legspin (ie. internationals), even if it runs the risk of damaging his confidence. Memo to NZ selectors - please do not debut Astle in ODIs.

If Astle is to play, he bats eight, Vettori at six and no room for anyone like Broom, Flynn or Franklin, sorry.

I don't know why we're talking about dropping Reece Young for de Boorder. Young has kept reasonably and already scored a fifty; a feat that Dropkins never managed once. Can't complain about a little healthy competition of course, but give Young a chance.

Other questions:
- McCullum and Franklin both showed glimpses of putting behind their flaky ways this season, only to re-establish themselves as absentees when the going got tough in the World Cup. Which McCullum and Franklin will show up next season? For starters, can only see Franklin near a playing XI if Styris retires from ODIs. Then again, McCullum might give away the gloves in ODIs and take Styris' spot instead. McCullum desperately needs runs - the knives will come out very quickly if he fails as test opener against Australia.

Am going to assume Taylor gets the captaincy. Seems the more logical choice.

Hoping Guptill, Ryder, Taylor and Williamson can do what they've been threatening to do for a while and combine into a formidable (relatively speaking) batting unit. Ryder staying fit would be a good start.

.... and now let's all go and hibernate the winter away until next season.

 

[vcs]

Has Vettori given up captaincy in all formats? I thought it was only for ODIs...

 

[Bahnz]

Has Vettori given up captaincy in all formats? I thought it was only for ODIs...

Yep, he's given up the captaincy in all formats. You'd think it'd make more sense that Vettori would keep the test captaincy for a couple of years whilst Taylor finds his feet in the ODI and T20 formats. But I think Vettori just got sick and tired of being the front-man for a team that always disappointed, so he's extracated himself from the role completely.

 

[Howsie]

ND chief 'ropeable' over error on NZC website | Stuff.co.nz

lol, what a screw up. You'd think counting the number of wins a team has in a 10 round competition would be fairly easy, obviously not however.