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Australians have alot to say now that they're winning ? - Tony Cozier

Burgey

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Strange coincidences do happen from time to time. BTW it's not like the only time they were below their best was against Australia in the time in question. There were plenty of other occasions.
QED, if that's the case they can't reasonably be said to have been number one then.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
A bit like the Welsh rugby team. Whenever they lose, the commentators talk about them "underperforming" - but the number of games they lose suggests to me that maybe they're just not as good as their apologists like to make out.

I still remember the 2-1 win in SA in 04/05 that really under-stated England's dominance in the series being written off as "underperforming" and unfortunate not to have been 3-1 to SA!
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Richard, I find it laughable that you have written off Morne Morkel. He is one of the finest talents to come out of South Africa in the past decade. Whether he can do justice to that talent remains to be seen.
I'm not sure I agree that he's one of the finest talents to come from South Africa in the past decade (he's not a patch on Steyn for example), but either way, I haven't written him off. To date he's not much of a bowler - that's it. I've never once said he can't ever be much of a bowler, but to date he isn't and there's no guarantee he will be. He'll need to make fair modification to be so.

BTW the comparison to Hayward in terms of number of games played is illogical. Morkel has enjoyed the faith of selectors; Hayward did not. That's not to say that Hayward would've had more success had he done so, because despite being very talented he had a poor attitude and, in the end, a weak body. But number of games played depends on the attitude of your selectors as well as your own performance.
Don't sit on the fence like a smart arse. You said

Richard said:
Morne Morkel has never been much of a bowler
Which isn't true as he has had past performances to prove otherwise.
 
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aussie

Hall of Fame Member
HAAAA @ Pratters attacking Richard. BTW Richard was right about Morkel up until his SLIGHT improvement in the current series vs ENG...
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
BTW Richard was right about Morkel up until his SLIGHT improvement in the current series vs ENG...
No he wasn't. Any one who has seen him bowl for a fair few spells in his career would know he is more than 'not much of a bowler'. That's a totally stupid statement on one of the finest talents I have seen in the past 7-10 years. One of the most ridiculous remarks I have seen on the forum.
 
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Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Also, it is pointless to argue with you aussie as you are even more stubborn than Richard as shown by your Sehwag stand. Worse than rat ****.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
No he wasn't. Any one who has seen him bowl for a fair few spells in his career would know he is more than 'not much of a bowler'. That's a totally stupid statement on one of the finest talents I have seen. One of the most ridiculous remarks I have seen on the forum.
I thought Azhar Mahmood, Mohammad Sami, Razzaq was some of the finest talents i have seen before they fell of substantially. Fact is you can't rate a player just on potential, he has to put in the goods.

Before this ENG series, Morkel was stuck in "potential mode" & was really not much of a bowler indeed - it makes no sense to look threatening & bowl trash, which is why he was dropped vs AUS in early 09. He seemingly is breaking out of that shell ATM though, which i hope he does for crickets sake, since we need a revival in quality pace attacks ASAP..
 

Goughy

Hall of Fame Member
I still remember the 2-1 win in SA in 04/05 that really under-stated England's dominance in the series being written off as "underperforming" and unfortunate not to have been 3-1 to SA!
I dont remember it like that. Going into the series England were big favourites and the stronger team. The best team won and as you said the margin could have been greater.
 
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Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Don't sit on the fence like a smart arse. You said



Which isn't true as he has had past performances to prove otherwise.
He doesn't. He has performances to prove that to date he's not much of a bowler. I couldn't care less about how talented or otherwise he is when assessing how good he's been so far - he's been crap, no two ways about. Yes, he may at some point be very good, but he's not so far, and no amount of anything will change that. However good he is in future, he was crap 2006/07-2008/09 and that will stay that way for ever more.
 

Pratters

Cricket, Lovely Cricket
Which isn't true as he has had past performances to prove otherwise.
He doesn't. He has performances to prove that to date he's not much of a bowler. I couldn't care less about how talented or otherwise he is when assessing how good he's been so far - he's been crap, no two ways about. Yes, he may at some point be very good, but he's not so far, and no amount of anything will change that. However good he is in future, he was crap 2006/07-2008/09 and that will stay that way for ever more.
A) I don't think you have seen much of Morne Morkel. I have as I follow South African cricket keenly (as you know).

B) He has had a fair few good spells and a few good wicket hauls to show for it as well at times.
 

Rant0r

International 12th Man
It seems pretty on the money, I wonder what he'd have written after the remaining tests
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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No he wasn't. Any one who has seen him bowl for a fair few spells in his career would know he is more than 'not much of a bowler'. That's a totally stupid statement on one of the finest talents I have seen in the past 7-10 years. One of the most ridiculous remarks I have seen on the forum.
Daren Powell. Pace, movement, and when he's ready, probing accuracy. All the assets to be a very good pace bowler. But he's he's not much of a bowler.

Daren Ganga. Beautiful defensive game, pretty much all the strokes technically sound. All the assets to be a very good Test batsman. But he's not much of a batsman.

If you don't apply your gifts, you can't be considered any more than gifted. 'Gifted' is not on it's own wicket-taking attribute.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Daren Powell. Pace, movement, and when he's ready, probing accuracy. All the assets to be a very good pace bowler. But he's he's not much of a bowler.

Daren Ganga. Beautiful defensive game, pretty much all the strokes technically sound. All the assets to be a very good Test batsman. But he's not much of a batsman.

If you don't apply your gifts, you can't be considered any more than gifted. 'Gifted' is not on it's own wicket-taking attribute.
Sami as well. He's even more baffling than Powell because he bowls completely rubbish less of the time, but he still never takes any wickets.
 

Rant0r

International 12th Man
Daren Powell bowls tripe.

Interestingly though I heard a commentatorn saying that surely Darren Ganga could find a place given his domestic record standing against his competitors for the same spot. Runs are hard to come by in the West Indies Apparently. Has Xavier Marshall made his first First Class ton yet ?
 

Mr Mxyzptlk

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Daren Powell bowls tripe.
Very astute.
But that's the point. Powell has the gifts to bowl well (he's bowled some magnificent isolated spells), but he doesn't overwhelmingly often. So he's a bad bowler.
Interestingly though I heard a commentatorn saying that surely Darren Ganga could find a place given his domestic record standing against his competitors for the same spot. Runs are hard to come by in the West Indies Apparently. Has Xavier Marshall made his first First Class ton yet ?
Marshall's not in the Test team though.

If you pick 6 batsmen, Gayle, Sarwan, Chanderpaul, Bravo, Nash are in there on performance. Barath has a very good FC record and a debut ton against Australia. There's no room for Ganga, unless he learns to keep wicket.
 

Rant0r

International 12th Man
Very astute.
But that's the point. Powell has the gifts to bowl well (he's bowled some magnificent isolated spells), but he doesn't overwhelmingly often. So he's a bad bowler.

Marshall's not in the Test team though.

If you pick 6 batsmen, Gayle, Sarwan, Chanderpaul, Bravo, Nash are in there on performance. Barath has a very good FC record and a debut ton against Australia. There's no room for Ganga, unless he learns to keep wicket.
Powell doesn't have many gifts, and doesn't bowl well often. I think he must be cousins with someone on the WICB.

My point with Marshall was lost on you, he's been picked for the test team previously despite a extremely modest first class record.
 

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