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Is Ricky Ponting a better batsman than Brian Lara?

Ricky Ponting vs Lara

  • Total voters
    114
Ikki

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
I think you mean Tendulkar, Ponting is the same. That's because bagapath was including games which Kumble was also part of. Which could mean ANY game that they both played together against ANY opponent LOL. The same thing goes with Ambrose/Walsh and Lara and Warne/McGrath for Ponting.

The stats aren't fallible, the person who used them put in the wrong qualifiers with respect to what he wanted to find out. But since the result was what he WANTED.. he didn't question them, he questioned me for not agreeing. :laugh:
 
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honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Ikki said:
You mean Tendulkar. That's because bagapath was including games which Kumble was also part of. Which could mean ANY game that they both played together against ANY opponent LOL. The same thing goes with Ambrose/Walsh and Lara and Warne/McGrath for Ponting.

The stats aren't fallible, the person who used them put in the wrong qualifiers with respect to what he wanted to find out. But since the result was what he WANTED.. he didn't question them, he questioned me for not agreeing. :laugh:
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I get all that, my friend and I don't think Bagapath did this willingly.. I reckon it is a honest mistake on his part...


I juz meant that when you remove Kumble (against whom we think Ponting didn't succeed much), his average actually goes down by several points...
 
Ikki

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
honestbharani said:
I get all that, my friend and I don't think Bagapath did this willingly.. I reckon it is a honest mistake on his part...
I juz meant that when you remove Kumble (against whom we think Ponting didn't succeed much), his average actually goes down by several points...
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Oh, I am positive he didn't. He is in my eyes a person of class. But he plays the bias card against me too easily and for that ignores too many valid points raised.

Ponting's average doesn't get touched when you remove Kumble. Your stats and bagapath's have the same averages for him. Anyway, the analysis is also flawed because it includes India away...and they were pretty sucky away. They were only strong at home - in fact, the strongest bowling attack of the 90s in their own country.
 
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arcane

arcane

Cricket Spectator
honestbharani said:
Juz to show how fallible stats are.. I took Kumble out of the queried list of bowlers by Bagapath and this is what I got..


Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

Ponting well down, for some reason.. :)
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I did some tweaking with your query and I think results were interesting...

Sachin

Ponting

Lara


Ponting looks ahead of those other two.. And yes its kind of cherry picking on my part as I added some other bowlers and included their entire careers.
 
bagapath

bagapath

International Captain
Ikki said:
Oh, I am positive he didn't. He is in my eyes a person of class. But he plays the bias card against me too easily and for that ignores too many valid points raised.
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thanks for the trust ikki and bharani. it was indeed a mistake. very embarrassing :(
 
honestbharani

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Ikki said:
Oh, I am positive he didn't. He is in my eyes a person of class. But he plays the bias card against me too easily and for that ignores too many valid points raised.

Ponting's average doesn't get touched when you remove Kumble. Your stats and bagapath's have the same averages for him. Anyway, the analysis is also flawed because it includes India away...and they were pretty sucky away. They were only strong at home - in fact, the strongest bowling attack of the 90s in their own country.
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oh.. gotta check.. will get back to this tomm.. need to leave somewhere right now :)
 
Avada Kedavra

Avada Kedavra

Banned
MrIncredible

MrIncredible

U19 Cricketer
bagapath said:
tendulkar>waugh>lara>ponting

this is purely based on observation. for statistical support

Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | Cricinfo.com

but that is not the be all of everything anyway
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Have to agree with Ikki on this one. This is too wide a net. For example although in 1997 or 98 i think Warne toured India by himself with no Mcgrath or fleming etc. Similarly when Oz toured the WI in 03 although Mcgrath was present Warne i think was still banned.

I think u need to redo this analysis Thusly:

Pakistan: Wasim and Waqar
South Africa: Donald and Pollock or Pollock and Ntini (at home)
West Indies: Walsh and Ambrose
Oz: Warne and Mcgrath
SL: Murali and Vaas (at home)

I consider an attack very good/great where u have atleast two great bowlers or one great bowler and at least another very good bowler that way u have pressure coming from both ends.
 
Ikki

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
If you're going to use that kind of evaluation, you have to do them separately as I did here. Even then it's not perfect.
 
Ikki

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Sri Lanka weren't anywhere near a good attack in the 90s. Zimbabwe were even better.
 
MrIncredible

MrIncredible

U19 Cricketer
Ikki said:
Sri Lanka weren't anywhere near a good attack in the 90s. Zimbabwe were even better.
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A. I never meant in the 90s
B. I knew the results of the stats b4 u posted them
C. Would appreciate it if u included the stats for Tendy as well dont have the time to do it myself
D. I consider Ponting in the same class as Lara/Tendy what is ur argument??
 
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Avada Kedavra

Avada Kedavra

Banned
I think in the end, we have to accept that there is very little between Lara and Ponting (and also SRT). Incidentally, a very detailed analysis was carried out on cricinfo on the greatest batsmen of all time. Obviously Sir Bradman was number 1. Lara was second, SRT third and Ponting fourth. Pretty clear that there is almost nothing between them.
 
Ikki

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Oh ok. Yeah Sri Lanka have been very strong in 00, especially at home. I don't think you can do, for example, pairs with pairs (i.e. make sure it considers McGrath AND Warne for example). It can only be either/or. Not perfect, but probably still better than what Bagapath did. In the end, you have to know their careers to know where this stat is falling short, etc.

All 3 with Sachin:

Ponting averages: 45.18
Lara averages: 44.35
Tendulkar averages: 49.75

Avada Kedavra said:
I think in the end, we have to accept that there is very little between Lara and Ponting (and also SRT). Incidentally, a very detailed analysis was carried out on cricinfo on the greatest batsmen of all time. Obviously Sir Bradman was number 1. Lara was second, SRT third and Ponting fourth. Pretty clear that there is almost nothing between them.
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Interesting, could you post it?
 
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Ikki

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Wait guys, I had made an error before when I tallied up Ponting's runs in limiting them to the 90s only. His average is lower than what I had put 90s.
 
MrIncredible

MrIncredible

U19 Cricketer
Ikki said:
Oh ok. Yeah Sri Lanka have been very strong in 00, especially at home. I don't think you can do, for example, pairs with pairs (i.e. make sure it considers McGrath AND Warne for example). It can only be either/or. Not perfect, but probably still better than what Bagapath did. In the end, you have to know their careers to know where this stat is falling short, etc.

All 3 with Sachin:

Ponting averages: 56.22
Lara averages: 44.35
Tendulkar averages: 49.75



Interesting, could you post it?
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Has to be pairs, Warne and Mcgrath (doing each analysis separately) other wise just saying Warne or Mcgrath with Lara for example will include Lara's runs scored in Oz in 92-93 where Warne was present but Mcgrath wasnt. For tendy Walsh or Ambrose would include the 94 series in India where Ambrose was absent etc etc etc
 
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