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General Doping Thread

StephenZA

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Howe_zat said:
As a general point, I don't think this is very different from the basic idea of being an athlete. Rugby players get concussions, footballers tear ligaments, wicket keepers break their fingers and cyclists pump their quads for hours until they vomit from exhaustion. To be a pro you sacrifice perfect healthcare, it's why they get paid so much.
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Man that was so long ago now..... still don`t understand why sportsman can`t get best treatment out of competition. But heh! Not going into that discussion again....
 
Daemon

Daemon

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StephenZA said:
Query, does anybody know what the rules are on the drugs allowed while injured? I am aware there are banned substances that you cannot use during competition as it helps recovery time etc. However what about when injured and these drugs could take a 9 week lay-off down to 6/3 weeks etc. If you used banned substance to recover quicker form injury but not actually enhance your competitive performance, is this banned? Should it be banned?
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I think there are drugs like these. Some are banned but can be used if you have TUEs, others are subjected to thresholds. I'm not very sure about the details, maybe hendrix can help.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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Is it ok if I'm massively sceptical how Federer is moving so effortlessly and looks so fit at age 36? Especially after a long lay off?
 
vcs

vcs

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Then you should also have been skeptical when it took an inspired Djokovic at his absolute peak to deny him in 3 Slam finals and a semi-final between 2014-16, when he was a sprightly 33-34 years old...

People can have their suspicions, but the simpler explanation is the obvious one. Federer is the master of giving himself opportunities. It's no coincidence that the "Weak Opposition" talk has re-started after Wimbledon (after going silent when Djokovic had an incredibly dominant season in 2015, and Nadal to a lesser extent in 2013). I can accept that those two at their absolute peak probably beat him more often than not in Slam matches. But the question is, did Federer ever go away? He has always absorbed the tough losses, maintained his level and kept coming back. So when Djokovic had a drop-off (Murray as well, though Murray hasn't really been a problem for Federer since 2014) this year, guess who was there to capitalize. No one is better at being there at the business end of Majors year in, year out than Federer, so take away his biggest obstacles, and he's back in the winners' circle. 2013 and 2016 were the only "poor" seasons he's had, and those can be explained by injury, and adjusting to a new racquet.
 
vcs

vcs

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This is a 38-year old Rod Laver.

Also, Jimmy Connors made the USO semis at 39, and Martina won Slams (mixed doubles) into her 50s, and made a Wimbledon final at 37. Serena and Venus are going strong, well into their 30s. It's not easy to be so competitive in top-level tennis once you cross 30, but it can be done. I suspect Djokovic and Nadal are far from done either, even though people love saying their physical style of play will "catch up with them". At least in Nadal's case, I've seen no reason to believe that. He could easily win another 3 French Opens alone.
 
OverratedSanity

OverratedSanity

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vcs said:
Then you should also have been skeptical when it took an inspired Djokovic at his absolute peak to deny him in 3 Slam finals and a semi-final between 2014-16, when he was a sprightly 33-34 years old...

People can have their suspicions, but the simpler explanation is the obvious one. Federer is the master of giving himself opportunities. It's no coincidence that the "Weak Opposition" talk has re-started after Wimbledon (after going silent when Djokovic had an incredibly dominant season in 2015, and Nadal to a lesser extent in 2013). I can accept that those two at their absolute peak probably beat him more often than not in Slam matches. But the question is, did Federer ever go away? He has always absorbed the tough losses, maintained his level and kept coming back. So when Djokovic had a drop-off (Murray as well, though Murray hasn't really been a problem for Federer since 2014) this year, guess who was there to capitalize. No one is better at being there at the business end of Majors year in, year out than Federer, so take away his biggest obstacles, and he's back in the winners' circle. 2013 and 2016 were the only "poor" seasons he's had, and those can be explained by injury, and adjusting to a new racquet.
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I'm not making it as if he's the only one at all and I know he himself has called for better and more frequent testing so I'm not painting him as a villain. It strained my credulity when Djokovic played high intensity marathon matches a few days apart seemingly without draining himself and it does the same now when Federer doesn't get notably drained by long matches when it had been an issue for him ,atleast imo, before this year. I know they're just phenomenal athletes and it's arguably unfair on them but it's just the point we're at now.
 
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vcs

vcs

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If you're referring to the Australian Open 5th set, Nadal had spent an equal (or longer) time on court, so there was no advantage to either of them. Nadal had played the second semifinal as well. It's dodgy scheduling that gives the Thursday winner an advantage, but that's a different debate and that's how it's always been at the AO. It didn't affect Nadal when he'd played the 2nd semifinal in 2009 against Verdasco, which was an epic 5-setter. He went on to beat Federer in the final, and looked the fresher player in the 5th set. But he was 22 back then, and he could probably have played matches like that on 10 consecutive days without getting tired.

Nadal's 5-set record has gotten worse with age, could have something to with physical endurance, or getting more nervous in crunch moments, I don't know. In the last 5 or 6 non-RG Majors, his losses have come in 5-setters.
 
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Furball

Furball

Evil Scotsman
And when you're as good as Federer was at his peak (bear in mind we're talking GOAT here) the level he's declined to is still better than 95% of players out there. So when the 2 or 3 guys who are currently better than you run into problems, it's hardly surprising you win major tournaments again.
 
Burgey

Burgey

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Is Mo Farah's rapid improvement several years ago from being a sort of mid-table athlete to unbeatable after some interesting coaching associations not something we talk about here?
 
andruid

andruid

Cricketer Of The Year
Burgey said:
Is Mo Farah's rapid improvement several years ago from being a sort of mid-table athlete to unbeatable after some interesting coaching associations not something we talk about here?
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As Coldplay say... Let's Talk
 
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