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*Official* English Football Season 2015-16

King Pietersen

International Captain
Amazing article. Basically claims that England's unbeaten run in competitive games is better because they were worse before their unbeaten run, than Arsenal were before theirs. Pretty hilarious logic. Trolls gonna troll.
 

cpr

International Coach
Difference is Arsenal actually played against some decent teams in their run.


And actually played some decent footy too.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
When was the last time England beat a genuinely good team (not just one that isn't totally crap or slightly above average) in a competitive fixture? Honestly can't remember.
 

cpr

International Coach
Actually googled that because I don't know.

The last time they beat a genuinely good team regardless was the friendly against Brazil at home in Feb 2013, the last away win was in Italy in August 2012

In competitive games - If you count Croatia in Sept 2009 (at home, Sept 2008 away).... or Croatia and the Swiss at Euro 2004? Failing that it was Beckhams worst penalty of all time against the Argies at the 2002 World Cup....


Jesus we're ****
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
West Germany, 1966
I get the feeling you are being somewhat tongue in cheek here, but you're not especially far off the mark. I remember when we were on the bus home from school one day, Pothas and I worked out that England had only really beaten a handful of decent teams at World Cup finals since 1966. This was of course more than a decade ago now, I suspect, but I'm fairly certain nothing has happened in the intervening period to undermine our conclusion.

Argentina in 2002 is the only game in living memory that I can think of where England beat a team that was supposedly very good - but even that is a bit iffy, as despite the fact they came into the tournament as one of the faves, when it came down to it they were actually extremely mediocre in all of their games before their demise, not just vs England.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
What do we count as 'genuinely good' in international football? Sweden are no pushovers for example but it's probably not what we're looking for (beat them in Euro 2012).
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Actually googled that because I don't know.

The last time they beat a genuinely good team regardless was the friendly against Brazil at home in Feb 2013, the last away win was in Italy in August 2012

In competitive games - If you count Croatia in Sept 2009 (at home, Sept 2008 away).... or Croatia and the Swiss at Euro 2004? Failing that it was Beckhams worst penalty of all time against the Argies at the 2002 World Cup....


Jesus we're ****
Yeah, probs right, but that is really clutching at straws imo.

Even in 1990, which predominantly seems to get looked back on very favourably, they were pretty crap for most of the tournament, and despite getting to the semi-final still didn't beat anyone good.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
What do we count as 'genuinely good' in international football? Sweden are no pushovers for example but it's probably not what we're looking for (beat them in Euro 2012).
In my mind I have it down as a team who can be considered to be a legit contender, or a favourite, for whatever tournament.
 

cpr

International Coach
Since that Argentina game we've done the following at major touneys

WC 2002
Sweden - 1-1
Argentina - 1-0
Nigeria - 0-0
Denmark - 3-0
Brazil - 1-2

Euro 2004
France - 1-2
Switzerland - 3-0
Croatia - 4-2
Portugal - 2-2 (lost on pens)

WC 2006
Paraguay - 1-0
Trinidad - 2-0
Sweden - 2-2
Ecuador - 1-0
Portugal - 0-0 (penalties again)

WC 2010
USA - 1-1
Algeria - 0-0
Slovenia - 1-0
Germany - 1-4

Euro 2012
France - 1-1
Sweden - 3-2
Ukraine - 1-0
Italy - 0-0 (oh look, pens)

WC 2014
Italy - 1-2
Uruguay - 1-2
Costa Rica - 0-0

So 6 tournaments - P25 W10 D10 L5 F32 A23
Not really impressive, especially when you consider some of those draws knocked us out. Also scary lack of goals.

Only 7 post group games in 6 tournaments. 2 won, 2 lost, 3 penalty defeats, scored 7 (3 in one game) let in 8.


Basically we're a running joke at international level, yet refuse to believe it.

Should move the national stadium to Anfield, such is our blind optimism pre tournament.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Yeah, it makes for very bad reading. Not only have England failed to win barely any game in which they were not favourites, but they have managed to underperform horribly in a considerable amount of games in which they were clear favourites.

I expect if you were to pull up the results for all the World Cups between 1966 and 2002 (those for which England actually qualified anyway) things would look just as bad.

It's one of the reasons why the whole "waaaaahhh, England have failed and this is totally unexpected...bring back the glory days" thing that gets bandied around every World Cup is so annoying. England have never been any good outside of England.
 

Cabinet96

Global Moderator
The win in Switzerland in September was a genuinely a very good one. They're not an elite team, but they got to the last 16 of the WC and have some players who have a big presence at some of Europe's best clubs.
 

Cabinet96

Global Moderator
And actually played some decent footy too.
One of Durham's main agenda is that the Arsenal 03/04 team weren't very entertaining. He said in the article that this England side have been much more exciting.

Edit: He also argues they faced much tougher opposition. Including Italy, despite the fact he doesn't count that when saying they won every game...
 
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sledger

Spanish_Vicente
The win in Switzerland in September was a genuinely a very good one. They're not an elite team, but they got to the last 16 of the WC and have some players who have a big presence at some of Europe's best clubs.
Yeah, but this in and of itself isn't necessarily indicative of anything especially positive. You could just as easily say the same thing about England really (if they hadn't made a real howler of the last WC anyway).
 

Uppercut

Request Your Custom Title Now!
What do we count as 'genuinely good' in international football? Sweden are no pushovers for example but it's probably not what we're looking for (beat them in Euro 2012).
I would think it means a team you would generally expect to be as good or better than England. It's fair to say Argentina 2002 was the last time, but they don't get many chances because they're almost always top-seeded for qualifying. Of the chances they have had, penalties probably account for almost half of their losses. It's not really as bad a stat it looks.

Looking at the results in that time it's hard not to think Sven got terrible press and Hodgson has got great press. Sven was manager when expectations were at their overinflated peak and Hodgson has come in at a time when I think they're actually a little too low.
 

Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
Man, if I were English I'd be praying Hodgson got a heart attack or something and had to step down.
 

GIMH

Norwood's on Fire
I would think it means a team you would generally expect to be as good or better than England. It's fair to say Argentina 2002 was the last time, but they don't get many chances because they're almost always top-seeded for qualifying. Of the chances they have had, penalties probably account for almost half of their losses. It's not really as bad a stat it looks.

Looking at the results in that time it's hard not to think Sven got terrible press and Hodgson has got great press. Sven was manager when expectations were at their overinflated peak and Hodgson has come in at a time when I think they're actually a little too low.
Sven had the 'golden generation' though so people expected higher. Which is what you said. Nevermind. carry on
 

Furball

Evil Scotsman
What do we count as 'genuinely good' in international football? Sweden are no pushovers for example but it's probably not what we're looking for (beat them in Euro 2012).
I'd say a team that would be included amongst the pre-tournament favourites. I'll give you Argentina in 2002 even though they're the South American England when it comes to being overhyped.
 

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