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2015 Rugby World Cup Thread

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Would happily play both on the flanks, myself.

Pocock 7 and Hooper at 6.

I remember the Wobblies doing a similar trick in the 03 semi when Smith and Waugh (IIRC) effectively double teamed McCaw to starve the ABs of possession.

WRT to the Oz stand off situation, Giteau must be in the shake up now. Can't be just coincidence that the ARU has ripped up their long standing policy of not picking overseas based players just before another WC.
The only issue with that is whether they will have enough line out options with hooper at 6.
 

social

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Would happily play both on the flanks, myself.

Pocock 7 and Hooper at 6.

I remember the Wobblies doing a similar trick in the 03 semi when Smith and Waugh (IIRC) effectively double teamed McCaw to starve the ABs of possession.

WRT to the Oz stand off situation, Giteau must be in the shake up now. Can't be just coincidence that the ARU has ripped up their long standing policy of not picking overseas based players just before another WC.
ARU has been teetering on the edge of bankruptcy for years (latest tv deal has effectively saved it) and new policy is a way to save money

Giteau might come into consideration but reality is that he was woeful the last time he played for the Wallabies and has been playing in a lower grade comp since then so implementing a policy just for him is highly unlikely

If the ARU was that desperate they would be better off breaking the bank and poaching Thurston from league as he is an infinitely better footballer
 
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Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
When I played schoolboy rugby, every forward (and a quite a few backs) wanted to play openside flanker. I remember a tour where the coach allowed each player in an under 15s team to choose the number on the back of his own training jersey, and no less than six players showed up wearing #7.
It is one of the most coveted positions on the field, arguably producing more players seen as legends than any other.
What makes the number seven jersey so special? I’ll come back to that later.
Whether the narrative of the Waratahs 13-10 victory over the Brumbies went the way you had hoped or not, there was an equally interesting sub-plot. The match served as an arena for two of the best rugby players in Australia to make a case for national selection.
On one hand, you have the incumbent Michael Hooper. Hooper’s workload is nothing short of Herculean. It is not unusual to see him participate in several rucks or tackles in a row multiple times per game and when you add in his fantastic running game, what you get is a player who earned the right to captain his country at the ripe old age of 22.
On the other, you have David Pocock, who is certainly no slouch in terms of effort but does tend to be a little more selective about where he exerts his effort. Hooper would leave him for dead in a foot race, but what Pocock lacks in speed he makes up for in strength over the ball and the ability to win turnovers. What’s more, Pocock has an uncanny ability to disrupt the ruck, draw a penalty or outright turn the ball over at times when that it is needed to halt an attacking onslaught.
Match after match both have performed at the elite level throughout the Super Rugby tournament, sparking debate from the pub punter to the expert about whether it would be wise to play both in tandem.
But Michael Cheika won’t allow that to happen.
It is clear at this point that if the Wallabies are to have a shot at hoisting the William Webb Ellis trophy in October they need to establish dominance in the set piece.
The set piece depends on the advantage of height in the line-out and weight in the scrum. Cheika understands this, as shown by running Will Skelton for 80 minutes match after match – an outright statement of intent.
The unfortunate fact is that neither Hooper nor Pocock, despite their obvious talents, have the frame to make them an asset in set-piece play. Add to that Skelton’s lack of mobility in the lineout and it is painfully clear that we cannot have both.
Not to mention that Australia has tried this trick before. Two greats in the position, George Smith and Phil Waugh – who ironically played for the same Super Rugby sides as Pocock and Hooper respectively – were routinely played in tandem in the early 2000s. This continued up to and including the 2003 Rugby World Cup final, where a superior English pack pushed and shoved kicker Johnny Wilkinson into place sufficiently often to allow him to kick four penalties.
Crucially, this dominance also earned range for the 100th minute drop-goal that won England the match and the tournament.
The short version is that once again Australia has two amazing openside flankers and only one jersey. Both players have the fitness to play for days. Both score tries. Both contribute on and off the field. Both are inspirational leaders. Both have captained the Wallabies. Both are in the form of their career.
Michael Cheika has a very tough decision ahead of him. So which one will it be?
It is at this point that I’ll return to my earlier question; what makes the number seven jersey so special?
I can already hear the so-called experts screaming “You idiot!, they need to put pressure on the opposition fly-half, be fast to their feet and pilfer the ball, be the first man to the ruck” and they would be half right.
This amounts to one thing, the primary role of a great number 7 is to exert influence over the outcome of match in any way possible. This means that they take all of those skills along with a number of others, not the least of which is the ability to sway referees’ interpretation of the breakdown, and apply them in order to control the momentum of the match. It is the very definition of a thinking man’s position.
It’s no coincidence that four of the world’s top six teams have chosen this position as their captain – Richie McCaw of New Zealand, Chris Robshaw of England, Sam Warburton of Wales, Michael Hooper of Australia. So it pains me to say this, as I am unapologetically a fan of both Michael Hooper and the Waratahs, but on that criteria David Pocock is ahead by miles.
What’s more, he is a true rugby captain, something the Wallabies desperately need. Michael Hooper has done an admirable job as stand in, but the fact that Cheika did not promote him to captain of the Waratahs says it all. He is just too green.
Really, who else is there? Stephen Moore is in questionable form and will likely play only half of every match, with Tatafu Polota-Nau or Tolu Latu coming on for the second 40 minutes. And the rest of the Wallaby leadership squad, which never made much sense anyway, is more of the same. James Slipper is a prop with a questionable ability to hold up a scrum. Adam Ashely-Cooper is an icon in the twilight of his career playing out of position on the wing. James Horwill looks like he might not even make the 22. You can’t have a captain who is not even secure in their own position.
Pocock, on the other hand, should not be under question. He is the superior influencer of the game, a natural captain, and what’s more he wields that intangible something extra. I’m going to call it the ‘Richie McCaw factor’ and it sets some above the rest. It is a combination of how a player carries himself on the field and a deep ability to read the game on every level.
George Smith had those attributes, Phil Waugh did not and statistics don’t lie; Smith played 111 Tests to Waugh’s 79. If we take the analogy a step further, Smith and Pocock play a similar style of game, which has proven to be superior to the style played by Waugh and Hooper.
In part this comes from Pocock’s persona; put simply he is a highly principled and strong willed individual. For one, how many players recover fully from season-ending knee injuries in consecutive years? Secondly, it doesn’t matter whether you agree with his well-documented social activism or not, you have to respect any man in his position who has spoken out for gay marriage, protection of the environment, and more recently against the use of homophobic slurs in our sport.
Roar mainstay Spiro Zavos went right off the deep end recently by suggesting that Pocock’s activism should specifically preclude him from captaining his nation, citing that it had placed him in breach of the Brumbies Code of Conduct. What a load of bollocks! It is Pocock’s willingness to place the interests of others before himself that demands he be national captain.
“Better people make better All Blacks”, that’s the saying if I am not mistaken. How many people do you know who would vow not to marry their partner until same *** marriage is legal for all Australian?
And in 2015, few would argue the importance of taking steps to conserve the environment but how many people do you know who would even contemplate getting out of bed to protest a development like the Maules Creek coal mine? For god sake the guy handcuffed himself to a giant Tonka truck while participating in a non-violent protest because he believed that a development was hurting local residents.
Brumbies Code of Conduct? What a load of bureaucratic nonsense.
This kind of person makes an exceptional leader as their strength of character will shine through when it really matters on the field.
Michael Cheika is of similar stock, his passion for his team and the game has boiled over on any number of occasions. So should we ban him from representing his country as well? No, we should make him the national coach and trust him to guide the Wallabies in a World Cup year… I say we should, the fact is we already did.
What all this all amounts to is that on and off the field, David Pocock is the more impressive player. He is better at the winning turnovers, he is better at reading the game, he is a better captain and leader, and he is the better person both to be in charge of the Wallabies and dealing with the referee in our 2015 World Cup bid.
Michael Cheika summed it up best at the post-game press conference last Friday when asked about David Pocock: “Can’t have enough players like that”.
The curious case of the Wallaby number 7 | The Roar
 

dermo

International Vice-Captain
pococks thoughts on coal seam gas should have absolutely nothing to do with who gets picked at 7
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Ranking of 7s in Australasia

The Elite
McCaw=Pocock=Hooper (throw a blanket over them and pick your personal preference. Traditionally Richie has been number 1 and may still be).

The very good
Ardie Savea=Jordie Reid

The good
Sam Cane

Daylight

The Rest
 

dermo

International Vice-Captain
harsh on hodgson and gill, particularly gill who has been quality this year
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
harsh on hodgson and gill, particularly gill who has been quality this year
My apologies to Gill. I have only seen 2-3 Reds games this year and I didn't notice Gill as a standout, I suspect because the Reds pack was going backwards at a rate of knots in those games.

He has been linked to a possible move to Melbourne. Which concerns me as he may get Reid's spot. I am becoming a fan of Reid and the Rebels back row in general.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Ranking of 7s in Australasia

The Elite
McCaw=Pocock=Hooper (throw a blanket over them and pick your personal preference. Traditionally Richie has been number 1 and may still be).

The very good
Ardie Savea=Jordie Reid

The good
Sam Cane

Daylight

The Rest
My opinion:

1. Sam Cane.
2. Hooper.
3. McCaw
4. Pocock

Everyone else.
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
Yep, placing Cane - an international performer who barely puts a foot wrong - below Savea, who is talented but raw is a bit odd.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Yep, placing Cane - an international performer who barely puts a foot wrong - below Savea, who is talented but raw is a bit odd.
Well Dave Rennie would definitely agree with you. Which is why he started Sam Cane, when he was also an All Black, ahead of Latimer, despite Latimer being a more experienced player. Oh wait that didn't happen...

No look I think Cane is on the upswing but his international experience is misleading as he was picked before he deserved the cap.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
He's been better than McCaw for a couple of seasons now and is really the only complete 7 going around.
 

Smudge

Hall of Fame Member
Well Dave Rennie would definitely agree with you. Which is why he started Sam Cane, when he was also an All Black, ahead of Latimer, despite Latimer being a more experienced player. Oh wait that didn't happen...

No look I think Cane is on the upswing but his international experience is misleading as he was picked before he deserved the cap.
Whereas Savea can't even put the ball down properly.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Savea had a better game than Cane tonight. Not that one game matters in assessing a player mind you.
 

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
At least he didn't live offside like Messam though. That guy should've been yellowed and then red carded 5 minutes into the match. Was shocking to hear his opinion after the game after he'd played so cynically.
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
At least he didn't live offside like Messam though. That guy should've been yellowed and then red carded 5 minutes into the match. Was shocking to hear his opinion after the game after he'd played so cynically.
Link (question mark) or was it an interview on TV
 

Hurricane

Hall of Fame Member
Who are people tipping for Lions vs Tahs.

I am backing the Lions but my entire reason is they are at home and they have lost 3 times at home this year. So I am wavering.
 

91Jmay

International Coach
Barbarians vs England is a good, close game. 8-)

52 - 5 England after 44 minutes. We've got some serious young talent coming through. Lots of good attacking backs as well.
 

ripper868

International Coach
Was at the game, Baa Baas were off their game. Gio Aplon had a shocker. Wades dropping over the line hilarious.
 

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