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*Official* English Football Season 2014-15

duffer

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
The calls for Wenger to be sacked are as premature as they are predictable, but the long and short of it is that Ozil is being played massively out of position, and this is a big concern. This is Mesut ****ing Ozil for god's sake. It's not an exaggeration to say he is one of the best players in his position in the world. For so long Arsenal have lacked a bona fide world class star, and now that they have one (or maybe more) he is being absolutely wasted, and it is a crying shame.
‘Ozil is unique,’

There is no copy of him – not even a bad one. He is the best number 10 in the world. He makes things very easy for me and for his team-mates with his football vision and the decisions he makes.

‘Everyone loves him and sees a bit of Luis Figo and Zinedine Zidane in him.


-Jose Mourinho.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
I actually can't see the over-reaction.
It depends where you look, imo. The BBC's twitter feed was inundated last night with calls for Wenger to be given the chop, which I think it's fair to say is over the top. But I think the general grumblings we've seen in here are pretty representative of Arsenal fans in general. The system being used at the moment is just not right, and I think people are entitled to feel aggrieved about it, and what its use means for several players, especially Ozil.

The problem is, as far as I can see, is that Arsenal now just have too many players who operate either exclusively, or most effectively, whilst playing in the middle. Wilshere, Ramsey, Arteta, Flamini, Ozil and Cazorla are all at their most effective when in the centre. Ozil, however, is the only one of that lot who is a specialist number 10, and world class performer. For these reasons, his place in this role should be assured. Getting the right combination of players around him, i.e. the other two central midfielders, is however, a problem. I think we've seen enough of Flamini and Arteta to reasonably hold the belief that they will simply not cut it in the big games (though I think both are good enough to make a decent contribution throughout the course of the season). I do not feel especially sanguine about Furball's suggestion of just having Ramsey and Wilshere partnering each other there though. I am just not convinced it would be an experienced or robust enough partnership to be truly effective over the long term - and certainly not at the present.

Perhaps it is conservative of me to naturally want one central midfielder who's a bit more defensively inclined. They needn't necessarily be a very limited tackling/fouling type player, or even exclusively defensive in the way they play, but I think you need something more than what the combo of Ramsey and Wilshere can provide. Alex Song was pretty perfect in this regard. He'd be up and down the pitch, making loads of tackles, but also contributing a lot to general play and going forward. Arsenal just don't have that kind of player these days.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
It's basically trite and a cliched platitude that pundits reel out every now and again, but I suspect part of the problem is Wenger doesn't know what Arsenal's best team is. Or at least, is determined to find a way to get it to work in a way that means some of the players he's earmarked for success do not get lost in the shuffle. Clearly, Wenger is determined for Wilshere to be good, and over the last few games he has been, and is probably now undroppable. Ramsey is similarly undroppable. Leaving Ozil on the bench, on the other hand is nonsense. But getting them all into the same side is more or less impossible, in my view anyway, without causing the team to become unbalanced and/or playing one of Wilshere/Ozil out wide. This could have been justified on the grounds of necessity in years gone by, but now Arsenal have loads of players who can operate in advanced positions, both out wide and centrally. I imagine when Walcott returns Sanchez will probably play on the left. Failing that there's still Ox, Podolski, Welbeck, Cazorla and Gnabry who would be better than Ozil or Wilshere in that position. My main concern is that someone sooner or later is going to get really fed up with being frozen out, and they will demand to be transferred. I just really hope it's not anyone good.
 

Eds

International Debutant
Ramsey does make a ****load of tackles though. IIRC he was top 10 in the league in tackles per game last year.

He just needs someone who can sit next to him who has good positioning, because whilst he makes loads of tackles, he misses a fair amount too.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
It's basically trite and a cliched platitude that pundits reel out every now and again, but I suspect part of the problem is Wenger doesn't know what Arsenal's best team is. Or at least, is determined to find a way to get it to work in a way that means some of the players he's earmarked for success do not get lost in the shuffle. Clearly, Wenger is determined for Wilshere to be good, and over the last few games he has been, and is probably now undroppable. Ramsey is similarly undroppable. Leaving Ozil on the bench, on the other hand is nonsense. But getting them all into the same side is more or less impossible, in my view anyway, without causing the team to become unbalanced and/or playing one of Wilshere/Ozil out wide. This could have been justified on the grounds of necessity in years gone by, but now Arsenal have loads of players who can operate in advanced positions, both out wide and centrally. I imagine when Walcott returns Sanchez will probably play on the left. Failing that there's still Ox, Podolski, Welbeck, Cazorla and Gnabry who would be better than Ozil or Wilshere in that position. My main concern is that someone sooner or later is going to get really fed up with being frozen out, and they will demand to be transferred. I just really hope it's not anyone good.
In fact, on this vein, since I can't be arsed to do any doctorate today, I will continue with this chain of thought and bore you all some more. I am really struggling to work out, with everyone fully fit (pie in the sky, I know), and for the sake of argument let's say they are performing towards the top end of their abilities, what Arsenal's first choice team ought to be.

I would probably favour something like this:

--------------------Giroud/Welbeck

Sanchez-----------------Ozil--------------------Walcott

-----------------Ramsey--------Arteta/Wilshere---------------------

Gibbs-----Mertesacker-----Koscielny---------Debuchy

---------------------------Chesney---------------------------------


This looks good to me, but is also alarming, not least because it looks very frail defensively. But precisely where can players like Cazorla, Podolski, and Chamberlain fit into this, particularly if another defensive midfielder comes in from somewhere? All 3 of this lot are good enough to be regular starters at plenty of top clubs, I can't see Cazorla and Podolski wanting to hang around in reserve very much - they're both effectively in their prime and ought to be playing. Nnngh, headache.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Ramsey does make a ****load of tackles though. IIRC he was top 10 in the league in tackles per game last year.

He just needs someone who can sit next to him who has good positioning, because whilst he makes loads of tackles, he misses a fair amount too.
Yeah, it's not just the tackle thing though. Like you say, positioning and interceptions are equally important, and because Ramsey is so often up the pitch scoring goals and whatever he just literally won't be there sometimes when the ball is coming the other way. This isn't even a fault with his game, it's just one of those things that is bound to happen when you play with a player like him, and the rest of the team needs to be able to carry it, for lack of a better word. Players like Pirlo and Xavi are not renowned for being defensive players, as such, but their positioning is so good that by simply being in the right place at the right time, then can take up space in the right areas and disrupt the rhythm of an opposition attack, even if this extends only to making an opponent alter his run or choice of pass. I don't think Arsenal have a player who can really help in this regard when it counts. Arteta is fine for this sort of thing when you're playing Hull or someone (that's not to say he doesn't make a lot of tackles, he undoubtedly does), but we have seen time and time again, for nearly 4 seasons now that when it comes to the big games, against sides that have an athletic and/or highly skilled midfield he gets completely overrun. It is like he literally disappears from the match. Flamini is great for when you want to get stuck in and go hell for leather, but I don't think he's a particularly good reader of the game, especially when playing in midfield (I've always thought he was very competent as a fullback), and he's not one to sit deeply anyway and charges about like a madman much of the time. Wilshere perhaps could be good in this respect, but he has made it clear that he sees himself far more as a swashbuckling attacking player than anything else, and in fairness to him there's more evidence to support that theory than there is to counteract it at the moment.
 
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CarlsbergXpress

U19 Vice-Captain
That team is pretty much what I came up with. Trouble is, it looks ok for getting into top 4 in the prem, but will it win anything? The better teams in the pl and cl will show up the defensive frailties, as was the case last night.
 

duffer

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Okay, onlinearsenal is full of children and Arsenal-Mania full of wankers. Not worth bothering.

You another gooner Carlsberg?
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
That team is pretty much what I came up with. Trouble is, it looks ok for getting into top 4 in the prem, but will it win anything? The better teams in the pl and cl will show up the defensive frailties, as was the case last night.
It's a squad that in my view is about 2-3 players away from being capable of that. Which is unfortunate, because this is what has been said of Arsenal pretty much every season for the last ten years.

There's enough attacking prowess, if everyone is used wisely. There's not one truly world class forward, perhaps, but I don't really think one is needed. Giroud/Welbeck/Podolski are all serviceable, and there are very good attackers elsewhere in the squad, so goals should not be a problem. The midfield needs someone better in the Arteta role, this is painfully clear. The first choice defence is fine, but the reserves are raw and/or not very good. Goalkeepers are fine as well. Chesney is at the very least decent, despite his inclination to go silly every now and again, and if Ospina's World Cup showings are anything to go by he is a very competent understudy.
 

Cabinet96

Global Moderator
If someone can find me a game from March 2013 onwards where an Arteta and Ramsey pivot wasn't a defensive machine I'll buy them a beer. FA cup final doesn't count because they were set pieces.

Just go back to ****ing basics Arsene.
 

sledger

Spanish_Vicente
If someone can find me a game from March 2013 onwards where an Arteta and Ramsey pivot wasn't a defensive machine I'll buy them a beer. FA cup final doesn't count because they were set pieces.

Just go back to ****ing basics Arsene.
Yeah, but on how many occasions did this combination actually play together? Not being facetious; generally curious. And more so, how did it fare in big games? I suspect it was alright against most Prem oppo, but against the big sides and in the Champions League...well, Arsenal's record in those games may well speak for itself.

This kind of leads me on to a seperate point actually. I really hate this myth, perpetuated mainly by idiots in the media, particularly the dopes at the BBC, that somehow Arsenal have been "papering over the cracks" and "sneaking into the top 4". Neither of these assertions are true. Papering over the cracks is not synonymous with just simply not being good enough to challenge for major honours - furthermore I don't see how signing Ozil and Sanchez, two supremely talented players can be equated with papering over cracks, it's not like they signed Jermaine Pennant and Jermaine Defoe ffs. And the whole sneaking into the top four thing, well that's just totally false.
 
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Ikki

Hall of Fame Member
How about a 4-4-2 diamond?

Welbeck - Sanchez
Ozil
Wilshire - Ramsay
DM/Arteta​

If Arsenal had a really good pure DM, that could work pretty great IMO. You have every player in basically their best position.
 
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sledger

Spanish_Vicente
Not a bad idea at all. Might prove difficult trying to fit Walcott and Chamberlain into it though.

Perhaps you could even drop the DM altogether, and play Mertesacker, Koscielny and Chambers as a back 3, with Gibbs and Chamberlain as wing backs. Would be itstl.
 
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Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
How about a 4-4-2 diamond?

Welbeck - Sanchez
Ozil
Wilshire - Ramsay
DM/Arteta​

If Arsenal had a really good pure DM, that could work pretty great IMO. You have every player in basically their best position.
A diamond similar to what United played at the Weekend could work well for Arsenal tbh against most teams. Welbeck, Sanchez can both comoftably pull wide and cut in from there.

Though not sure how it will work that well with their defense and Arteta as DM and Ozil AM in the Big games. Maybe they could go 3-4-1-2 there.
 
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Cevno

Hall of Fame Member
His lack of defensive workrate and discipline centrally also increases the load on those behind and particularly a DM.

Though it comes more down to how well Arteta, midfield and the defense can cover more than anything as others have said.
 

Cabinet96

Global Moderator
Ramsey-Arteta has always been Wenger's first choice when both are fit. Probably played 25 games+ in 2013. Didn't play all of the big games once Ramsey got injured but we beat Liverpool home, Dortmund and Bayern away and drew with Chelsea without conceding in all four. Then we got dicked by City, Ramsey got injured and we've never recovered.
 

Cabinet96

Global Moderator
Moving on from the Arse debacle, I think City will get a result tonight. Bayern haven't really got going this season yet and have a heap of injuries.
 

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